My major concern isn't quite so much about civil liberties - although I do have concerns in those areas - particularly regarding racial harassment - it's more that ID cards are an expensive white elephant.

As has been widely pointed out, ID cards didn't stop the Madrid train bombers, and I don't see what difference they'll make in stopping terrorism here either. The problem is with working out whether something's going to happen, not who someone is. Richard Reed had a valid passport on him don't forget.

On illegal immigration, again, I don't see what they'll do. If the authorities wanted to crack down on illegal immigration, what they would need is more home office officers and a computer system that works properly. However, they probably won't want to do that as to expell illegal immigrants would probably lead to a collapse in the urban service sectors and the agricultural economy.

The real big problem is that they will cost a fortune. We could build new schools and hospitals instead of having ID cards. for me, that should be the priority of a labour government.

Finally, I've said this sort of thing before but saying socialists would support ID cards is like saying that supporters of a capitalist economy would support ID cards. Some would, some wouldn't.

As the new home secratary stated in parliment yesterday. It is a fact that a third of terrorists make use of false identification in the planning of/or committing of a terrorist act.

The trade in 'Human trafficing' also heavily relies on false identification .

Also, everyone brings up the Madrid bombings and ID cards. Well maybe Spains ID cards arn't as effective as ours would be ,or maybe the Spanish government didn't make full use of them.

It's like saying.'why wear a seatbelt,it didn't stop 'so-and so' from being killed.

KLF Spain has compulsory ID cards that must be carried at all times. they have a picture, and ID number, and, if I remember correctly, the person's finger print. They go far further than this proposal - they still didn't stop people from blowing up trains in madrid

They might have a good ID card. But that doesn't mean the authorities take the time to make use of them. Do the police ever bother to check anyone's ID.We could all have ID cards, but if no one ever asks to look at it,or no one ever requires it before you can gain access to bank accounts/social services..etc.Then it will be as good as useless.

An ID card scheme will only be any good ,if it is enforced correctly.Maybe Spain havn't worked out how to take advantage of them OR how to enforce them properly.

I've had my ID checked in Spain (in the absense of ID card I showed my passport). The police do check and, again, if I remember rightly, they did check the bombers' IDs - they were legitimate IDs. ID didn't not stop the Madrid bombings or the WTC attacks this is also very interesting

Very interesting,but as the website is called 'Privacy International'.I didn't need to be a pychic to guess what conclusions they would come to with regard to ID cards.I've also no doubt what conclusion a website like 'Migration Watch' would come too over the effectiveness of ID cards. It doesn't mean that either view is more valid( (or more accurate) than the other.

As i said before ID cards will not stop ALL terrorist attacks OR even most terrorist attacks.But if it stops just a few attacks ,it will have been worth it.As i said before, IF a third of terrorists use false ID in the planning and carrying out bombings.Then surely it would help to track down that percentage.And to keep a closer eye on those that use their real identity (because their details will be on a national database..etc). It will also enable the police,who strongly suspect a person of terrorist involvement, but do not have enough evidence at the time to charge him/her.To pull them in with regard to ID card violations (Non registration/failing to update current address..etc) .

Helping to stop terrorism is just a part of the many advantages that having an ID card would bring.BUT having an ID card Scheme that ISN'T compulsory (or doesn't intend to be compulsory,would be a huge waist of money.

And who is going to do that? In Germany we´re constantly reducing the number of employees in civil services and police due to empty cash boxes. If someone breaks into your car and steals your cd player the police doesn´t even bother to come. You´ll have to go there, then they take a look at your car, write a report and the next thing you´ll hear after a few weeks is that the matter has been closed. Do you really think they have the time to control peoples ID´s on a regular base? AND: who would want to have their ID´s controlled about three times each day?

And you see, this is my major problem with how ID cards will combat terror.
If this is what you think they will be doing - exactly who will they be taking to police stations over "ID card violations"?
Anyone who's face they don't like the look of or happens to be a practicising Muslim (or whichever religion/group we're fearful of at the time) and this is no better than the dreadful Stop and Search problem of the 70's and 80's, which ended in the Brixton (and other black area) uprisings of the early 80's.

It is tantamount to police harrassment and racism.

I have to point out, Sarah, that by your definition, virtually every European country, Canada and the US are racist police states, since all either literally or de facto, require IDs of adult citizens. I think you have to agree that that is hardly the case.

While I am sympathetic to your concerns, I would suggest you do the following: Try to get to work in the morning without being on CCTV once. Can't do it? I didn't think so. If you are generally afraid of 'the state' (which would be, I have to point out again, a bit strange coming from self-professed socialists) you have much bigger fish to fry than getting an ID card with your picture on it and producing it should a police officer ask for you to. I mean, come on, we've all got passports. Are all countries racist and discriminatory because they require you to have -- and generally to carry with you at all times -- a passport?

I just don't think these arguments work, really, when seen in context of existing laws elsewhere.

ID cards are used to harass members of ethnic minorities in a number of European countries, especially France (surely you can join with me in criticising France at least?).

It's the combination of it probably not being effective to fight terrorism, probably not being effective in fighting benefit fraud and it definitely being very expensive.

We could have new hospitals and schools in place of those ID cards.

I take your point about CCTV, but it's one of those things where I think why should the fact that things have got bad mean that it's ok to make it worse. If CCTV is an invasion of civil liberties, then why does that make it OK to invade them more?

Finally, as I said above, it's wrong to think of everyone the left as being statist. First off, it's a non-sequiter that being in favour of more state intervention in the economy means being in favour of the state collecting more personal information and further regulating how that's retained. You can hold one of those opinions without holding the other. Secondly, it's just incorrect to say that the left universally believes in a bigger role for the state. Just like it's incorrect to say that the right believes in a lesser role for the state.

Do you think ethnic minorities are not harassed in countries that do not have ID cards? Are ethnic minorities targeted in Britain now? Surely teh answer to the first question is no, and the answer to the second question is yes, and that's why I just don't really care whether I've got to have an ID card in Britain.

I have lived in countries that have IDs and those that don't, and in neither have ethnic minorities said that they never feel discriminated against by the authorities.



There's a lot of probablies in that sentence, Graham. I would argue that ID cards probably help fight terrorism and definitely help fight benefits fraud and absolutely help make life better for legal immigrants. Of which I am one.

I also think the price they're talking about for the cards is ridiculous. Especially because I'm not sure the plan has been thought through and these cards are going to have to be updated regularly (address, photo, etc) so they're going to have to think that through.



We could have those in place of lots of things. The right would argue that we could have them in place of benefits for asylum seekers. If it costs as much to make an ID as it does to build a hospital, somebody's ass ought to be FIRED.



I do not see how carrying an identification card (again, you have a passport, Graham, you're already there) is worse than being filmed 24 hours a day, everywhere you go, by the government. I genuinely do not.




Excellent. That is one of the funniest paragraphs you've ever written. You just made my day. What is this, Christmas or something?

Sorry Mata, I wasn't saying that I think countries that have ID cards are racist - what I was trying to say was that if they are introduced here on the grounds of combating terrorism and used in the way that the klf would like them to be used (as an excuse to pull in anyone who may be "dodgy") then I have a real problem with them.

I don't have a problem with having ID, I have a passport (although I only ever have it on me if I need it as recommended by the Police as they are a real target for theives) and I used to have a provisional driving license before those buggers in the pub nicked.

What I do have a problem with is HAVING to carry that ID everywhere I go. That theoritically you or I could be stopped on the way to the shop and fined for not having it on our person (or go through the hassle of having to go to the police station and producing it) is worrying and that is the way it will go if they become compulsory (which they will).
As Martyn pointed out earlier - it isn't me that would have to worry, nice middle class girls don't get picked on by the police, but black, asian and white working class kids often do and it'll be another excuse for our police force to stop and search these people. Its discrimination by the back door.

As for combating Benefit fraud - the figures have been quoted elsewhere on here but its the equivalent of using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. The expense far outweighs the money saved.

I've got to say, you're not convincing me of the need to have ID cards Mata. Most benefit fraud isn't based on identity fraud, it comes from misreporting of family situations and income. A better and much cheeper way to stop that fraud would be to do an audit of the NI numbers that are in circulation and delete the fake ones.

The passport thing is a bit of a red herring. Yeah, I've got a passport, but I don't need it to get hospital treatment. I would need my ID card to get hospital treatment.

A friend of mine who works in the department of work and pensions also pointed out to me that they'll mean the closure of many more post offices - think about it - benefits centrally managed and going into a bank account via an entitlement card.

Once your terrorism argument falls apart and your benefit fraud argument looks weaker, I find myself thinking, what is it we're spending at least £85m per year on then?

Also, much as I hate to break up any seasonal hilarity, what do you disagree with in that last sentence? Do you not think that there are right-wingers who want more state? Have you really led that sheltered a life that you've never met someone on the left who doesn't like the state?

I think that should be done too. I don't have any statistics on benefit fraud, and but I do not see how giving people a way to identify themselves when they register and collect benefits is actually a bad thing. It seems to me like it might make life easier for them.



I do not think anybody should need anything to get emergency treatment. However, what about the whole holiday healthcare issue -- tourists coming over from Europe to have surgery because they know they can get it for free here, and then going home without paying for it? That's a valid issue, since it is, essentially, stealing from the nation. If you had to have an ID card to get non-emergency treatment for FREE, I don't see how that is such a bad thing.



It would surely mean the creation of more jobs elsewhere? The benefits claims will still have to be managed, and the cards created and issued -- I don't want post offices to close either, but I don't entirely understand the use of post offices as payment centres. I think post offices should be used for post.



I don't think I made a terrorism argument.

I don't get all this 'harassment' arguement. If you HAVE an ID card,how can you be harassed by the police.???.If you have one,it only takes a second to produce it out of your pocket. I wouldn't mind being asked for my ID whenever i came into contact with a police officer.

People would only be 'Harassed' if they couldn't produce a valid ID card. And rightly so,if the law reqiures you to have one. It like saying that people without a TV license will be harassed if they havn't got one. WELL GET ONE and then no one can harass you.

What color is the sky in your world, the klf?

Definatly not rose-tinted like it is in yours,Barbara.

Just a quick point - I don't have a TV licence, I don't have a TV. That doesn't stop me from getting lots of letters telling me how I may be 'fined or imprisoned' etc under various laws if their inspectors find me using a TV in my house. After reading all of the ways that you may buy a licence theres some small print saying 'if you do not possess a television please write to this address'.
It is now 4 times that I've written, as they request, and all that happens is that the next week I get the same letter as before headed 'You recently informed us that you don't have a TV............Do you know that you can be fined or imprisoned etc'
I've stopped wasting stamps.

you're a freak or a liar aquaman, eitherway you shall be punished or imprisoned

I think the lesson they want you to take from this is: CONFORM! Get a TV!

Then they'll leave you alone. And you can join us in watching rubbish gardening and animal shows. Right this second you're missing 'Dunkirk'. Earlier you missed 'Dr Zhivago'. How can you bear it? (Some sarcasm intended...)

That´s right, we have them, too. As a matter of fact their absolutely worthless if fighting terrorism, crime or illegal immigrants. It´s also a matter of fact that they will remain worthless as long as a nation doesn´t have the bureaucratic machinery to keep the system running, and that means constant controls of each and every person.

Wrong, you can also be harrassed because the police suspects you of carrying a forged ID card. I know a black german man who had been asked to show his passport and instead showed them a german ID that said he was a german citizen. The police imprisoned him one whole night because `he didn´t look like a german´. They set him free the next morning when the immigrant office had offered them evidence that the ID was genuine.
If you´re likely to be harassed it will happen anyway, but the obligation to carry an ID and show it if asked offers just another opportunity to be harrassed.

Seems like they don´t find you reliable. If you had one you could show them an ID card instead, that´d teach them!

Excellent point well made, Meg.

If I was a betting man I'd have a fiver on one of our racist fascist bully boys picking up their first "Paki" about 30 seconds after the ID card bill gets royal consent and banging him up until he can PROVE his ID is genuine.
Now how would you do that?

I guess you'd have to show them your passport or your photo driving licence.

They really are going to have to build a whole bunch of new prisons because after all is done and dusted and if this preposterous law gets on the staute books I'll be breaking it every day of the rest of my life. I'll never pay the fine and I'll never ever carry the card.

That's a promise that is.
I hereby, in public, openly and freely- that's FREELY - state that I WILL break the law and will continue to do so until the death penalty is restored and you fuckers can execute me as a traitor.

Martyn.If i were you, i'd start saving up the £1500 fine now.

All this crap about locking people up because they are suspected of having false ID. It will be so easy to put into place guidelines to prevent this from happening. The most important aspect in this is to make the cards tamper proof.The latest technology should be able to guarantee this.

If the ID card's picture and fingerprint details cannot be tampered with. Then just have a law which states that a person cannot be held in costody IF his fingerprints match those on his ID card.Simple as.!

Technology is also in place to allow police cars and individual police officers to carry fingerprint recognition devices.So checks can be done in seconds . No need to go to a police station at all.

...and everyone lived happily ever after







(Jeez, he's as naive, gullible and stupid as Martyn is mad.





And Martyn is completely bonkers )

errr. KLF, you have made that point before, and i made this one:


dodgy ID cards will have been made with the dodgy persons picture and fingerprints on, thus he/she will match the id card....

it wont be stolen ID cards thats the problem (where your picture and fingerprints wont match, obviously), it will be fake ID's that fool mr policeman into thinking that its a real ID.

all it will take is for one individual to be on the 'inside' to make the computer records on the database that back the card up appear, and hey presto naughty person with legit seeming ID.

also doesn't this fingerprint idea mean another change in the law?
At present, the state doesn't hold my fingerprints on file, as i havent been caught (yet) for doing anything illegal, or being suspected of doing something illegal, which i understand is the only time that my fingerprints can be asked for at present.

if we can't produce money that isn't copiable(sp?) (you would think money would be one of the most important things we should have made secure using wonderful technology), how the hell do you think they will produce an ID card that is copy-proof?

:lol:Fingerprint recognition devices for every police officer!!! You really are a dreamer. We don´t even have ONE SINGLE machine to to tell forged passports from genuine ones in 95% of immigrant offices OR police stations here because ít´s too expensive. To find out if for ex. a british passport is genuine german police has to contact british authorities in Britain. If their lucky they´ll get an answer within the next two months, sometimes they won´t ever get one because of data protection laws or because of the fact that for whatever reason it seems to be difficult even for british authorities to find out.

On that count I do know that things are different in Australia as I had some personal involvement. Every airport and every major seaport has passport scanners which are extremely good at detecting forged passports. So, the technology is available and it does work.

And Martyn's copyproof money ? We've had it in Australia for about 15 years and the Australian Mint now produces it for lots of countries. But not the UK - obviously you guys are above having a former colony produce your dosh and instead the place is rife with counterfeit stuff....just like a 3rd world country.

It is available and it works but it´s not payable for the poor european countries like GB and Germany...
As for the money: when our beloved Euro was introduced `they´ said it was copyproof. Indeed the notes have several security features but nevertheless the first forged notes were available shortly after they´d been introduced. Even the genuine ones are not equal. The size of 5,-- € notes differs slightly depending on from which country they are.

it was me with the counterfeit money stuff, b'topia....

you may well have moved to polymer rather than paper, but it doesn't stop people trying though does it?



OK, they got caught.. fair enough, but i wonder if everyone who tries it gets caught? for instance, the person who passed this dodgy $50 bill...In the same way, people will try forged ID cards, and people will get away with it.

Nevski.I think you missing the point.It may be possible to produce a counterfiet ID card with the correct picture and fingerprint of the person in possession of it .But as that ID would NOT have been manufactered by the correct government authority that produce them.A serial code(let alone having the persons fingerprints on file[if he'she has a genuine card] should suffice.No drama /no conspiricy theory/no problem.


Ie..you may be able to produce a fake card with your correct picture and prints on it,but unless those same details are registered with the official ID card organisation,then it easy to verify a genuine or fake card.

The only way a card could be sussesfully faked is a the very beginning when you have your the photo and fingerprints intitally recorded.But that would be very difficult as you would have to have that person appointment card/birth certificate/passport/national insurance number..etc.

Apart from the fake problem: what about the money you´ll have to spend for the surroundings? Where would you take the money from?

Well, in my experience, execution for lack of an ID card is relatively rare. However, they will fine you a lot, and then destroy your credit and deny your mortgage on the grounds of your bad credit, and on and on and on.

Which is arguably worse.

Hey, Martyn, you drive, right? So you've got a driving license?

I don't want to be the bubble burster, but I think they already know where you live....

I know they do and I do have a driving licence?

And I have a National Insurance number and a passport and a bank account.

What can I tell you? I love to vent and rant Mata. You know that.
Everybody knows. MW thinks I'm 'Completely bonkers' and whilst some of it is undoubtedly Jack Daniel fueled fanciful tosh it most certainly is sincerely felt.

What certain members can't seem to grasp and what the great genreal public just don't care about is that the government, the machine which allows GB Plc to run smoothly and at a profit, is not in the least bit interested in terrorists. OK...perhaps a teeny weeny bit interested. But terrorism and the threat of terrorism is of almost no interest to the leaders, movers and shakers of the richest nations in the world.
Its a distinctly irritating side show to be sure and it has its uses in as much as it is a tool which allows those governments to introduce ever more intrusive legislation with which to control the populace. It allows for control through fear.

For hundreds of years governemnts have visited death and destruction on the populations of countries with whom they are in economic or ideological disagreement.
The excuses for the involvement of foreign soldiers in the lives of the people of war torn nations are many and varied but always, especialy in the last 60 years "morally" justifiable. Any resistance by the people of these countries is always described as terrorism. So when oil pipe lines and railway lines are destroyed in South Africa by the ANC who are not best pleased by the ruling apartheid regime. Its terrorism.

When entire villages in Vietnam and Cambodia are wiped from the face of the earth along with every inhabitant whether they be man, woman, child, pig or chicken its an unfortunate concequence of war.

I've just been reading an interesting interview with Noam Chomsky. Its what made me think yet again about why my government, one for which I voted and for which I actively campaigned, would want to introduce an ID card scheme when by their own admission the reason we have not suffered a terrorist attack since 9/11 here in the UK is because the forces of security, law and order are doing such an effective job.

No. The ID card is a way of being in increased control, if not total control of each and every man and woman in the UK. At present your movements and activities can be looked into following applications to a court. In future the simple act of failing to carry or present a small card will automatically result in your being in contravention of a law and therefore your rights to any semblance of privacy can be swept aside. As a suspected felon you have very few rights. This goverment is actively engaged in stripping away as many of those as possible including the right to a trial by jury.
The right to keep silent has already been eroded.

The police can deal very effectively already with those elements of society which choose for whatever reason to ignore, abuse and flout the laws of the land.
The government finds it increasingly difficult and expensive to keep tabs on the populace, the electorate or the work force. How much simpler then, than for the desire to remain somewhat anonymous and private to be made a crime.

I really don't have anything to hide. I'm not a criminal. I pay income tax and road tax and I am very careful about keeping to the speed limit. Don't park in disabled parking bays and I don't drop litter in the street. For all my bluster I'm a pussycat.
So...Why won't the Home Secratary and the people behind the ID card scheme be honest with us and tell us what the cards are for?

Naturally I don't expect to be executed. I'm not a brave radical person given to climbing over fences at US occupied RAF bases in the UK, admirable activity though it is, but I will never carry that sodding card.
It may well result in my arrest. It may well result in me being fined, but I won't pay.
I may well get sent to prison. But I'm thinking that if, in the unlikely event (fingers crossed) the ID card scheme is fully introduced and implemented, I won't be alone.

As I said in a previous post, this or the next National Socialist party under Blair or whoever had best start building more prisons because those already dangerously overcrowded establishments currently operating are going to get worse.

Our parents and grandparents fought and died - I know this is almost something od=f a cliche but iits still valid - to stop the kind of world envisaged by Blair and Blunkett coming to pass. For now they can see who's who just by the colour of your skin.
How long before carrying the card is not enough? How long before a special badge needs to be worn at all times and clearly in view?
Perhaps a red crescent for Muslims?

I object to having to pay for the bloody thing. If the bastard government can afford to spend billions of pounds fighting an illegal war on behalf of the neo nazi American oil industry they can stump up the nettle rash to pay for the bastard ID cards they want us to cart around all over the place. Aye - and they'll not do any good anyway. Typical New Labour bollocks imvho.

As you know, Martyn, I'm not averse to a good rant my own self. So, I don't mean to intrude on anybody else's soul-cleansing rant. But, if it helps at all (and why should it?) I think the government of any well-organised western nation has all the material it needs already to know absolutely everything about you, should it feel the need to know the actions of all of its citizens -- an ID card really wouldn't help or hurt that much. However, luckily for us, following 60 million people around all the time takes a huge staff, is massively expensive, and our nations can hardly afford that while spending billions on the Iraq war...

Actually, our nations can't afford much of anything while spending billions on the Iraq war. Which is going to cause problems in the near future, I predict.

I can't believe Martyn hasn't been on here about the fact they've DROPPED this bill so they could make way for the dissolvement of Government ahead of the election.
Good news in the short term?

I'm keeping my powder dry for when Blairs mob of spineless scumbags form the next administration.
I've given up concealing my contempt.

In fact I think it's surprising that I've managed to do such a good job for so long.
After all, eight years in power has done little to secure the future of volume car manufacturing in the West Midlands and now they want me to be thankful that they're lending Towers and his dodgy buddies 6.5 million a week to pay wages.

If they win in May they should be forced to change their name. Labour, my arse.

Of course, one of the first bills to be mentioned in the QS will be the introduction of Biometric Identity Cards for all adult, they'll call us citizens, when they really mean subjects, in order to protect us from KIM Jong Il.

Having read through this post I wonder how many people on here have read the proposed ID ligislation. It's available at www.homeoffice.gov.uk. I would urge eveybody to read it, particularly the pro ID Card posters like klf.
I'm not happy with having to tell the government, on pain of a £1000 fine, should I move house and then being expected to pay for the privilege. Nor am I happy with being ordered by the Home Secretary to 'Attend at an appointed time and place' to be fingerprinted and photographed.
Then there are the costs. £35 for a card or £82 for an card and passport, in the case of the latter you must have both. Then there are further charges to look at your entry on the National Identity Register and if necessary update it. Bear in mind that it is your resposibility to keep your entry on the National Identity Register up to date, or face a £1000 fine for failing to do so.
On the other hand there will be no requirement to carry the card and no extra powers for the police to ask for it, either of which would be enough to negate any anti crime, anti terror function. This of course begs the question, what are these cards for?

Black Cloud

I'm doing nothing wrong so no one needs to know

No. You won't be alone. Pass the bread and cheese, please.

I know that the bill has been dropped, pro tem, but when "Blairs mob of spineless scumbags form the next administration" [perfect description Martyn!] they will just put it back on the agenda and crank up the fear mongering until the opposition parties crumble and quiver in submission in the face of 'not protecting the public'. This is a dark game. Throw in the house arrest we now have in this country (I still can't believe that!), and the draconian control measures we are facing in the next term of government become all to clear.

I'm not a criminal, I haven't done anything wrong [honest] so I don't see why they should be able to force me to prove who I am, and keep biometric records of me. Bollocks to that.



A grim but ever present thought.

It is all rather reminiscent of Proudhon's description of government isn't it?

"To be governed is to be watched over, inspected, spied on, directed, legislated, regimented, closed in, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, assessed, evaluated, censored, commanded: all by creatures that have neither the right, nor wisdom, nor virtue... To be governed means that at every move, operation, or transaction one is noted, registered, entered in a census, taxed, stamped, priced, assessed, patented, licensed, authorized, recommended, admonished, prevented, reformed, set right, corrected. Government means to be subjected to tribute, trained, ransomed, exploited, monopolized, extorted, pressured, mystified, robbed: all in the name of public utility and general good. Then, at the first sign of resistance or word of complaint, one is repressed, fined, despied, vexed, pursued, hustled, beaten up, garroted, imprisoned, shot, machine-gunned, judged, sentenced, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed. That is governemtn, that is its justice and its morality!"

That's either taken from Pierre-Joseph Proudhon or the welcome pack for new and returning Prime Ministers at 10 Downing Street...

How to completely miss the point.

Nice holiday, KLF?

Well please explian how carrying a piece of plastic in your wallet is going to stop any would be terrorist from setting off a bomb or carrying out some other similar atrocity? It might make them easy to identify, but otherwise it's just control freakery and plastic shackles.

over to you oh pearly wisdomed one

Wasn't the convicted terrorist (who was residing in Wood Green) recently refused asylum, but diappeared only to be later picked up by the police for shop lifting,but again released because they couldn't identify him.As it would be illegal to not be in posession of a valid ID card,he would not have been free to disappear again,later to stab a policeman to death.

Thats one example of how manditory ID cards would have help society.Want any more ??

Yes. Lots.

klf
Under the proposed legislation he wouldn't have needed to carry an ID Card and nor would the police have the power to ask him for a card.
So what are these cards actually for?

Black Cloud

I'm not doing anything wrong so no one needs to know.

I'm in favour of everyone having to carry a compusory ID card,and i'm in favour of the police being able to ask an indivdual to produce an ID at any given time.Or having to produce the card in order to use public services. Thats a workable and worthwhile scheme that would produce results and be benificial to all.

If the governments ID card scheme doesn't meet those basic standards then yes, it could well be a waste of time and money.