Greetings everyone. I am throwing out a question. I am going to cite a bunch of studies and reports. I am going to ask a simple question. Does the UK have an advantage over the US because of its size? The UK is approximately the size of New York State. You appear to have a mass transportation that seems much more reliable than anything we have in the states. Given the way energy prices are going Is smaller better? The US is undergoing huge problems because of its energy prices and its size. We built these huge strip malls and suburban sprawl that requires driving to do anything or get anything. The biggest debate we are having is to allow drilling in our last pristine area - Alaskan Wilderness as if thats going to solve the problem and thats another problem. Too many of my fellow countrymen have their brains up their ass and appeal to the lowest demeanor of politics. Your politics appears more intelligent. Even David Cameron makes sense compared to the your average Republican

You want to use the UK as shining example of a sound national transportation system?

You're kidding right?

First of all, you have a Mass Transit System is an improvment. I am not going to say the UK is the citadel
but in some instances, you are way ahead of us.

The UK is nearly twice the area of New York State, and more than three times the population.

I'd agree that strip malls and suburban sprawl are not to my taste, and that David Cameron, a man who leaves his bicycle "secured" to three ft bollards, is far more sensible than your average US politician.

But your energy problems are not, with only a few exceptions, going to be solved by higher population densities and public transport.

I'd agree that strip malls and suburban sprawl are not to my taste, and that David Cameron, a man who leaves his bicycle "secured" to three ft bollards, is far more sensible than your average US politician.

But your energy problems are not, with only a few exceptions, going to be solved by higher population densities and public transport.

Then what is the solution or solutions?

At the moment the UK is suffereing the opposite problem ... there's just too many cars & lorries on the road .... our motorways are now full most of the day ... because we may have public transport but getting anywhere by public transport is slow & rather expensive.

I travel 35 miles each way for my cricket fix ... this 'normally' takes between 45mins & an hour by car. By public transport the journey requires a bus & then 3 trains (or 2 trains & a 2nd bus) .... journey time 2.5-3.5 hours. The actual travelling time is a small portion of the journey ... The first train in only hourly so I have to catch an earlier bus to ensure that I get the train I want. In the reverse direction the train just misses the once every 30 mins but at my local station ... although this is good news for the local pub.

The train bit is really silly. My local station is about 7 miles from the county boundary ... the 14 miles round journey to the next station costs more than from that station to my desination as counties subsidise journey's within their boundaries.

Yes.

But ...


It is impossible and just plain silly - I Know, I try to do it all the time and go mental - to compare the US with anywhere else because the country is so ridiculously, stupidly, mind -bogglingly vast.

Only the other day I listened to a couple of truck drivers - on the CB - bemoaning the fact that Portland is spending millions on a light rail system. Never mind that what already exists is heavily used and highly successful. Never mind that some sensible politicians have decided to massively extend the system to benefit the populace of the wider Portland conurbation. They just wanted the dumbasses to quit building mass transit shit and make the roads wider.

I was tempted to point out that the UK (pop:61,000,000) - 4000 square miles smaller than the State of Oregon (pop:2,500,000 I think) - has tried, and continues so to do, building wider and wider roads and more of them with the result that car ownership rises and the traffic density remains either the same or goes up.

Sadly, and I am sad about this because I love my motorcycle and fast cars and all things internal combustion, the answer is to start curtailing the use of such vehicles.

Equally sadly I find myself having to recognise there is a government of a vast, densely populated country that has for decades controlled its populace in just such a way. They recently hosted the Olympic Games.

I read an article in the New York Times not too long ago about how the rise in gas prices has encouraged people in US urban areas to use public transportation more often, with the result that the systems are being overloaded - and like Portland, many are investing in expanding in order to accomodate the increase in passengers.

Similarly, both Moscow's roads and public transportation system are totally overloaded. A local soccer team (I think maybe Spartak) had to abandon their team bus which got stuck in traffic while on the way to a UEFA match against another European team and get on the completely overcrowded metro - if they hadn't, they'd have ended up forfeiting the match because they wouldn't have got their until hours later. Ambulances have an extremely difficult time getting through. I hear traffic in Rio is so bad that the rich travel everywhere by helicopter.

I'll see your ridiculously, stupidly, mind-bogglingly vast and raise you a mostly desolate except near the coastline.

How can it be stupidly vast? I'm mostly with you, but it sounds like you are accusing the US of being large. To which I plead, um, guilty?

The answer to the power problem is simple, more nuclear power plants. Instead of spending wasted money into researching unrealistic alternative energy sources, it would be better to invest the same money, and more, into researching ways of dealing with the waste from nuclear energy.

As for the UK as an example of a successful mass transport system?

Uh, not really.

Try France.

edited to add

Domino just read my post then proceeded to read me the riot act.
Expect a full rebuttal.

In the US, nealy all transit systems are heavily subsidized by tax dollars. Passenger fares tend to only account for 25% of the operating cost (under ideal conditions). When gas prices rise, not only do the bus systems experience a further rise in operating costs, they also see new transit customers which can overload the services. This drives the need for a greater investment in transit infrstructure, but local and state elected officials seem to favor road building over transit, so the problem gets worse.