There has been a lot said about about service men and women wearing the uniform in public places.
I was wondering what should be the reaction to seeing service men and women (in uniform) in town.
Do you ''tut tut''? if you don't aprove of the war?
Geoff I'm trying to phrase things right.
Max Hastings is a Tory. Former editor of the the Telegraph and the London Evening Standard.
And he said this.

What's your point? Shouldn't they be proud of "rescuing and recovering fallen comrades"? If I'd chosen to join the military, I'd be proud to have saved some of my workmates.

does this really require a new thread?

Our troops deserve our support and admiration. They don't get to make decisions about whether they go to war.

Probably not, as being started by me I'm sure it will be 'boycotted' by some people.
And if I had had all my senses about me yesterday afternoon I wouldn't have started it either.
But it's here now anyway, and maybe a more worthy subject in the current affairs section than ''on the margarine'' and all them other daft ones.

For those that don't know, or didn't read the link I did (which is perfectly understandable) the story was front page news yesterday, and the prime minister even spoke about it.
There's an RAF base near the town of Peterborough, and some air personel had reported being barracked in the town by people (who presumably) didn't agree with the conflicts that Britain is involved in.
And from what I heard of the discussion of it on the radio, it didn't take long before some people were suggesting that it was people who were not British originally, or muslims who were the people who had shouted insults from passing cars. I haven't heard of any evidence to back that claim up, (I'll have to look up the local newspaper for more on the story).

But you can undrestand why the reactionary press and talk radio programmes were incensed when the chief officer of the base, banned Air personel from wearing their uniforms off base.
I have some sympathy with that view, but only so far.
LeftintheUS, I'm not sure how much I agree with you. While personally I would never call out to someone in military uniform in the street and be negative to them, volunteer soldiers and military personnel also have to take a long hard look at what they are doing, and decide whether or not the cause is a just one.
If I had been in the army and has ordered to Iraq, I wouldn't have gone. Or if I had gone one time, saw what was being done - then I definately wouldn't have done a second tour.

A few years ago in the States, I delivered this car to Virginia Beach Va, from San Diego. It was the car of a navy pilot who had transfered to the east coast. I chatted to him for a while; he was in his flight suit when I called at his house, and he dropped me back in town. When I joked about him being responsible for the constant sound of fighter planes in the air above the city, he smiled and said: ''that's the sound of freedom.''
Hmmph, I thought to myself, tell that to the people of Belgrade that Nato jets had been terrorising just the year before. Actually blowing up bridges over the Danube in the city. Disgraceful.
The US Air Force and Navy fighter planes are somewhat cavalier in what they drop bombs on, (and I'm sure the RAF aren't much better, there's just less of them).

That the Military is steeped in backward populist thinking should also not be overlooked. Not as racist and homophobic as it once was I'm sure, but I know for a fact that the British Army used to indoctronate its recruits in anti Irish rhetoric. (I know as I was once in the Teritorial army for a while, but left over the Faulklands war, which I never supported, and couldn't put up with stories from ex regulars who had heard stories from mates out there etc.) At our basic training, from day one we were tought songs to sing while out on forced marches and runs. Some were pretty harmless, others were German paratrooper songs from WW2, and there were a couple I remember about ''Paddy's'' and Bloody Sunday. Also, ex regulars who had served in Northen Ireland would tell about interrogation methods, and how for example, the hose inside a fire extinguisher was really good for beating suspects with, as it didn't leave a mark.
How much of this was BS, I don't know. But the British army was institutionally sectarian in Ulster.
When you are a citizen of the UK, (whether you like it or not), it's completely out of order to have your ''own'' army pointing their guns in your face. It's not a nice feeling when you're walking down the street in northen Ireland, and you see a soldier crouching in a front garden checking YOU out in his rifle sight, by (of course) pointing his weapon right at you.

The British army when they were trying to take Basra initially, fired artillary cluster bombs into the center of the city, at locations they thought Sadam's forces were. And any inocent people killed are just treated as colateral dammage.
I also think that what was done in Fallujah and in the battles with the Mahadi Army in Karbala and Najaf were practically war crimes. Similar to the tactics that Israel has been using in Gaza. But even more deadly.

I don't think I would feel that happy about someone I knew who had taken part in these operation's.
Just like when I have met Israeli's over the years. Like a couple of really tough guys I met one time backpacking. They supported Israel's brutal treatment of Palestinians, and when I told them that I had been in Nablus just the year before, they told me that the old Kazbah that I had walked around had been heavilly bombed. They knew, because they were there.
Why not feel the same about your own country's soldiers if they are involved in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Anyway, to me this is one of these conundrum's - that may not be worth its own thread.

Is this just another excuse for a "What I Did On My Holiday While I Wasn't Trying To Mindread The Locals" thread, whilst stringing together a bunch of links and snips from various websites without an original thought?

If the Army blokes want to wear their uniforms in town fine, they don't bother me one bit.

Talk about origional thought Jon. All I have got down on paper next to your name is ''narrow minded PC sectarian''. I'd like to flesh it out with some more of your views and opinions, but I read the posts you do in politics and current affairs and they are a bit lite in that reguard.
You must have had seen enough of where I'm coming from, as you have me down (in your little bit of paper) as a ''pillowcase wearing cross burner''
How pathetic is that? I kinded of pretended that you were somewhat joking, or exagurating for effect, but I'll take you at face value now - and so for you to say that (I think) shows you in a terrible light.
Personally I don't care - I have known of that kind of small mindedness for years before I ever heard of the BB forum.

And there might be a bit of ''what I did on my holidays'' in that last post. So what?
Wasn't it you that bought a snake in a Manilla market, and released it into the wild to save it from being eaten? (The sort of thing Linda McCartney would do )

I obviously have more of a problem with military people than you do. Not with the soldiers of the Republic of Ireland, (for example) as they do very little apart from peace keeping duties in the likes of Labanon.
But British soldiers Navy and Airforce have been involved in some bad stuff since the end of WW2.
They have to answer for themselves.
What the f*** was Paddy Ashdown doing out in Borneo in the 60's?


''On my holidays'' in the States, I used to have a ''problem'' when I came across Vietnam Veterans. Like a bunch of Vet bikers I met in a Florida bar one Veterans day. They were assholes, and really up themselves.
Or getting a ride from a guy wearing a baseball cap with ''Vietnam Veteran'' on it.
''So how many Vietnamese got killed in the war?'' was a question you had to broach carefully.

And this flag sucks

Are you keeping notes on the people who post here, you fucking freak? Haven't you got a shopping precinct to loiter in?

If that's the case then they should stand out in their uniforms, so they can 'answer for themselves', it saves waiting for Poppy Day

Calm down Jon, calm down.

The ''all I've got down on paper'' comment, was metaphorical.

what on earth is it a metaphor for?

I'm not very sure. I thought I knew the meaning of that word already, but I looked up www.dictionary.com just to get it right.
But I only got a CSE grade 1 in English in 1979 - so I'm not always that up to speed on spellings and apostrophes.

After further research I think I was using the word in the way I meant it. Saying ''all I've got down on paper'' - (about Jon being a narrowminded PC sectarian) means in actual reality, ''what I've got in the back of my mind, from being on this forum for the last two years and reading Jon's posts in the politics and current affairs sections ........''
So I used the metaphor of having it down on paper.
I hope that clears things up.

Did you perhaps mean 'euphamistically'?

an euphamistic reification?

Did you perhaps mean rectification?

Not this time!

<after a quick visit to the online dictionary> Ooh look, I learnt a new word today!

edited out

If it's important it really should be spelt, 'equivalent'

its a definite yes for me, but many parts of england squadies actually get beaten up for just being squadies. my sister used to be in the army and it happened all the time. if people in the town found out you were a squadie on a nightout or something they would most probably get jumped.

I don't disagree with alot of what you say. I just don't see what purpose taking it out on an individual random soldier will serve. I imagine many of our soldiers did not expect to be into the situations they are now in or to be asked to do the things they are now doing.

Yours and theirs and ours.

Although I think to be fair, going to war is one of the job specs. And there is no such thing as a fair or nice or just war.

So is being shot at and attacked, something which seems to take a few people by surprise.
However, it's usually assumed that this will happen on a 'battlefield', not walking down the road to the supermarket.

edited out.

There was a time not too many years ago when one of the Scottish regiments had a bit of a problem with the war office. Some of there men ( in a jeep) were pinned down by sniper fire and Mad Mitch their C.O. was forbidden to send men in to get them out. He sent his men in and brought them out. But that was the end of his career in the army. He went into politics and became an M.P. To me it seemed to be a repetition of General Wolffe at Quebec, "send in the Highlanders, little ill if they fall. I think the incident was in Aden but I am not sure.
When I was in the R.A.F. you had to wear your uniform into town as civvies were not allowed, especially at training camps.

Bloody hell, why did I ignore this thread? Funniest thread on the forum in months.

This is why I always wear my flame resistant armoured uniform (& bullet resistant hard hat) before I enter any Politics & Current Affairs thread.

edited out.