After their rise hasn't been backdated the English, Welsh & Northern Irish police federations are talking about taking strike action. What's people's view on this.

I must admit my first thought is that we should get a load of ex-miners to charge any picket line with horses & battons

After their rise hasn't been backdated the English, Welsh & Northern Irish police federations are talking about taking strike action. What's people's view on this.

I must admit my first thought is that we should get a load of ex-miners to charge any picket line with horses & battons

After their rise hasn't been backdated the English, Welsh & Northern Irish police federations are talking about taking strike action. What's people's view on this.

I must admit my first thought is that we should get a load of ex-miners to charge any picket line with horses & battons

This government has managed to combine low unemployment with low interest rates and low inflation, looking back on 18 years of tory economic mismangement who would have believed that possible???

The public sector pay round is being limited to no more than 2% thats for the poliice/teachers/civil servants etc. This is necessary to try to keep a lid on inflation which if it rises will make the larger rise pretty pointless anyway.

I don't believe the police have been treated shamefully at all, after all in the last 10 years they have had some good pay rises and I don't see any poor coppers especially with all that overtime. The numbers of police have swelled in the last 10 years they have done very well out of the government.
The public sector pay round is being limited to no more than 2% thats for the poliice/teachers/civil servants etc. This is necessary to try to keep a lid on inflation which if it rises will make the larger rise pretty pointless anyway.
Ecomonic competence is hard won but easily lost we all respect the role of the police, teachers and armed forces but some times we need to act responsibly even if we would rather just write the cheque.

This government has managed to combine low unemployment with low interest rates and low inflation, looking back on 18 years of tory economic mismangement who would have believed that possible???

I honestly believe Mick H just types directly from the New Labour press release!

I have also become the first in my family to become a graduate (thanks in no small part to comprehensive education)

I remember the 1980's and they were horrible, miners strikes/poll tax etc never again.

Don't forget what it was like, Please folks do we really want that again?

I'll just make the one point umemployment is lower than the late 1970's as you correctly point out and MUCH lower than the Thatcher years.

JBoyd,
I'll just make the one point umemployment is lower than the late 1970's as you correctly point out and MUCH lower than the Thatcher years.

Sorry everyone but being a social realist this is pretty much as good as it gets. Enjoy it because if we talk this government down we won't replace it with a Respect government or a Green government or even a coalition with Lib Dem's achieving PR we will get another Tory government.

Don't forget what it was like, Please folks do we really want that again?

I think greatly increased student numbers are a good thing certainly in preference to having more young people on the dole. As for the demise of student grants when we greatly increase the numbers in further and higher education (and we are always told about the power of education in regard to social mobilty) I don't believe you can continue to pay for it in the same way, The sums wouldn't add up.


Realistically it is a choice between lower paid jobs or no jobs, find me the perfect society, it doesn't exist. At least if you have a job there is the possibility that you can work your way up.

Less social mobility I think you have to look at this over something like 50 years say 1945 to 2005 and we have all vastly increased our wealth home ownership/cars/consumer goods etc etc etc.


It's a shame I'm in a minority of one in this thread but thanks for the debate.

ess social mobility I think you have to look at this over something like 50 years say 1945 to 2005 and we have all vastly increased our wealth home ownership/cars/consumer goods etc etc etc.

UK social mobility fails to improve
By Bob Sherwood and Alex Barker
FT

Social mobility in the UK remains far lower than in other advanced nations in spite of the government’s professed determination to tackle inequality, according to research from the London School of Economics.

The potential for children born in 2000 to move to a higher income bracket than their parents is still as low as it was for children born in 1970, the report said.

LSE researchers found that children’s life chances were still firmly linked to parental background. For example, children from affluent backgrounds who did badly in test scores when aged three tended to overtake poorer but more gifted children by the age of seven.

The report, undertaken for the Sutton Trust, an education charity, casts doubt on the effectiveness of government reforms to tackle class inequality. Earlier this year Alan Johnson, then education secretary, said Labour policies since 1997 meant poor children were likely to have “a much better chance to escape the limitations of their background”.

The research continued work by the same authors who ranked the UK alongside the US for low social mobility, while Canada, Germany and the Scandinavian nations were significantly more mobile.

Sir Peter Lampl, chairman of the Sutton Trust, said: “Shamefully, Britain remains stuck at the bottom of the international league tables when it comes to social mobility.

“It is appalling that young people’s life chances are still so tied to the fortunes of their parents, and that this situation has not improved over the last three decades.”

The issue of social mobility is a central pillar of Gordon Brown’s plans for the country. In September he called for “a genuinely meritocratic Britain”.

Social mobility and rising aspirations have framed disparate lines of government policy, from increasing the age of mandatory education to building more affordable housing.

In his keynote address to the Labour party conference, the prime minister said it was unacceptable that there were “so many children destined to fail even before their life’s journey has begun”. He called for a Britain where there was “no longer any ceiling on where your talents and hard work can take you”.

The Conservatives have also embraced the issue – notably in abandoning support for selective grammar schools on the grounds that they do not improve social mobility.

Dr Jo Blanden, co-author of the LSE research, said there had been a steep fall in social mobility between 1958 and 1970, and although the class divide had not widened since then there was no evidence of improvement.

“You can either look at it and say the rot has stopped or that the government has been unsuccessful in policies to stamp out educational inequality. Either way, it’s not getting any better,” she said.

Among its main findings, the report highlighted inequalities among those gaining university degrees. While 44 per cent of young people from the wealthiest 20 per cent of households acquired a degree in 2002, just 10 per cent from the poorest fifth did so.

The report also found that, among children born in 2000, those from the poorest fifth of families in the brightest group for cognitive tests when aged three had, on average, attained worse results by the age of five.

In contrast, the test performance of those from the richest 20 per cent in the lowest achieving group had risen steeply by the age of five. By the age of seven, the wealthier group would have overtaken the poorer.

Though children born as recently as 2000 are still a long way from reaching the workforce, Dr Blanden said the education outcomes at different ages meant likely patterns of mobility could be predicted.

Sir Peter called for a “radical review” of the government’s approach to improving social mobility. He said ministers should set up “an independent commission to review the underlying causes for our low level of mobility and what can be done to address it”.

I think greatly increased student numbers are a good thing certainly in preference to having more young people on the dole. As for the demise of student grants when we greatly increase the numbers in further and higher education (and we are always told about the power of education in regard to social mobilty) I don't believe you can continue to pay for it in the same way, The sums wouldn't add up.

Less social mobility I think you have to look at this over something like 50 years say 1945 to 2005 and we have all vastly increased our wealth home ownership/cars/consumer goods etc etc etc.

Realistically it is a choice between lower paid jobs or no jobs, find me the perfect society, it doesn't exist. At least if you have a job there is the possibility that you can work your way up.

PS let's see if Damon can work race into this!!!

Cheers Mick.
Actually I don't have much care for this issue. Being a person who is at the bottom end of the social scale (working casually through agencys, with no pension, and large gaps in my national insurance contributions - living in bedsitland etc, in a few years time I'll be living at the very bottom of society).
But I don't mind the prospect that much, as it will be the result of choices I made years back.
So when I hear of the kind of pay rise negotiations and the comment it brings up, (like in this case with the police) I don't have much sympathy. The wages and employment conditions in the places I work, are really bad.

Thought it was interesting that Tony Benn was marching with the Police Federation yesterday...

Mick - do New Labour email you with which press release to post on this forum or do you actually believe this crap?
I'm still not convinced you don't actually work at Westminster, you never stray from the party line...

Criminals must've been rubbing their hands together with so many of the Filth marching through London that day.

But on the whole after 18 years of Tory government I'm pleased with Labour.

dose anyone know, when the protesting coppers marched through london. did they have the rest of the police escorting them? and did they take photo of the marchers. would of loved to of seen it.

... They did have coppers escorting them, yes ...

i just hope the police workers, taking to the streets, are learning some political lessons.

Right ... so they'd be scabs then?

Good link btw Beryl.

they'd be the bosses of the ones doing the marching wouldn't they?

1) While recognising the difficult decision and the real world we live in I was against the Iraq war initially and did attend the big demo with my wife and kids, we had a nice family day out actually.

So what changed your mind?

The rousing success of the ever-so-well planned occupation???

All those car bombs - the creation of the world's biggest terrorist training camp? The propoganda victory for Islamic terrorism and the subsequent rise in Islamic miltantism around the world? The Madrdis Bombs, 7/7?

The cost of the war which has wrecked the US economy that has the potential to cause a massive depression which will hit the world's poorest more than anyone else.

The mind boggles...