Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Morrissey: Rabid Tory Loon?
Billy Bragg Forums > Politics and Current Affairs > Current Affairs
Pages: 1, 2
Lillian Bellamy
I had heard that Mozza's latest diatribe was a carefully de-contextualised stitch-up by the NME, trying to make him look like a flag-waving xenophobe. So I bought the magazine to read the piece for myself, and unless the quotes are actually fabricated, I can't come to any conclusion other than him being a flag-waving xenophobe. Who says he lives abroad because British taxes are too high and because all the foreigners in Britain are diluting the national identity.

Eek.

Anyone else read it and have observations?

(apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - I couldn't find it.)
readytoswing
Haven't caught it myself yet but I am aware of his huge Hispanic following that he talks quite passionately about. Not the actions of a xenophobe in that case.
Lillian Bellamy
All I can say is, read the article. I'm aware of his hispanic following. Maybe they're okay so long as they stay out of England...
geoff
any chance of scanning it for those of us who read the news months after it's been reported?
aquaman
Legal action threatened
damon
All I have to say, is that looking at a leftist/liberal site called Harry's Place - the 2nd of december entry threw up some interesting opinion on what Morrissey said. Here is just one line of it:
QUOTE
What astonishes most of us immigrants, is the way that a sliver of liberal opinion appears to regard "Englishness" with suspicion or scorn.

Then it gave links to a couple of Guardian ''Comment is free'' opinion pieces. This was one of them.
Is it really so strange?
I agree with the guy who wrote that.
He finishes:
QUOTE
The greater danger with hurling such accusations at anyone - and in this I include, albeit with some hesitation, Martin Amis - is that we risk alienating what I suspect is a substantial portion of the public who have such concerns but are not actually racist. By saying everyone who challenges the orthodoxy about the untramelled benefits of multiculturalism and immigration is racist we devalue the term to the point of rendering it meaningless. Those who believe that modern life is not rubbish, that the benefits of immigration outweigh the alleged drawbacks should surely have enough confidence in their arguments to make the case rather throwing the R-word around. The case for a modern British identity, one composed of many colours and cultures cannot be very strong if it cannot even withstand the sceptism of Stephen Patrick Morrissey.
Lillian Bellamy
Damon, read the original article.

Geoff, i don't have a scanner anymore...I wish I could scan it in.

Aqua, the journalist objected because NME "softened" the piece. The original article was much stronger.

Tim Jonze's blog
Roo
QUOTE(joaniecrumpet @ Dec 3 2007, 04:29 PM) *


Geoff, i don't have a scanner anymore...I wish I could scan it in.


Scan.
geoff
thanks to my favourite Vermont resident. wink.gif
Roo
biggrin.gif
geoff
what's the word - Vermontian? Vernetian? Vermoaner? Vermillion?
Tanya
I use Vermonter, but Vermillion is a prettier word.
Jon
Vermontee?
Jon
QUOTE(joaniecrumpet @ Dec 2 2007, 10:31 PM) *

I had heard that Mozza's latest diatribe was a carefully de-contextualised stitch-up by the NME, trying to make him look like a flag-waving xenophobe. So I bought the magazine to read the piece for myself, and unless the quotes are actually fabricated, I can't come to any conclusion other than him being a flag-waving xenophobe. Who says he lives abroad because British taxes are too high and because all the foreigners in Britain are diluting the national identity.

Eek.

Anyone else read it and have observations?

(apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - I couldn't find it.)


I'd guess that depends on what the British identity is.
Does he mean an equal dilution of Welsh, English, Scottish & Irish identities, because I don't feel my own (personal) identity has been diluted and I'm of the age (pre-40) where I've only known of the multi-cultural town / country that I grew up in.

Mind you get a flavour of what being 'British' or 'English' means from watching old movies and tv, but technology has done as much to alter these images as immigration.

Final thought, does this immigration refer to people of color from Asia, India, Caribean, which would make it a thornier issue, or would the migration of people from Scotland, Wales & Ireland affect the 'English' identity when their own identities are more easily integrated into our own, which makes the dilution less obvious.
damon
Well Joainecrumpet, unless people are reading up on this story and preparing to write some serious stuff, can I in the meantime do one little link??
Barmyrob thinks they're 'cunts' and finds me posting stuff like this irritating, but if you read any analysis better than this in Spiked-online today, please do a link to it.
From the article:
QUOTE
Morrissey, though, has been on a loop about immigrants for nearly two decades now. Central to The Smiths iconography was a lament for the decline of the post-war consensus in Britain. It was ironic that while Morrissey championed the kitchen sink dramas of the Sixties (A Taste of Honey, Saturday Night, Sunday Morning, Billy Liar etc) as a forlorn counterpoint to garish Eighties Britain, originally these dramas bemoaned the changes of 1950s Britain and were already nostalgic for a mythical ‘Old Britain’ themselves. While many leftish journalists indulged such twaddle, the logic of this tunnel-visioned, Little England outlook is to start bemoaning changes brought about by mass immigration, too. And that, of course, is precisely what Morrissey started to do.

Leaving aside Moz’s infamous ‘reggae is vile’ jibe from 1985, the first major controversy was around the track, ‘Bengali In Platforms’, from his 1988 debut solo album Viva Hate. But it was the furore surrounding his appearance at Finsbury Park supporting ska band Madness, wherein he waved a Union flag in front of a montage of skinheads, that caused the NME to ask on its frontpage ‘Flying The Flag or Flirting With Disaster?’ back in August 1992. Unusual at the time, but the debacle also made headlines beyond the music press. The mainstream media’s engagement with the controversy was a sign of how ‘anti-racism’ was starting to be used to create new moral codes in wider society.

And the piece ends with this:
QUOTE
Although the left’s stern ‘acceptable/non-acceptable’ codes in the Eighties (which often meant referring to people or ideas as ‘ideologically sound/unsound’) were routinely ridiculed by the Tory tabloid press, by the early Nineties this kind of thinking was gradually being co-opted to forge a new conformist etiquette and behaviour code. The year after the Morrissey/Finsbury Park debacle, the BBC started promoting ‘anti-racism awareness’ on Radio One and the NME publicly backed the re-launched Anti-Nazi League and their populist ‘Anti-Racist’ music festivals.

Since then, the NME has been at the forefront of the new conformism, as they have revealed during the latest Moz ‘controversy’. ‘We’re really nice people, we’re committed anti-racists, you know?’ seems to be the NME’s chest-puffing response to it all. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t pop stars – generally not known to be the brightest bunch – often spouted ill-informed garbage? Who can forget boy band Blue’s belief that dolphins were now sadly neglected because of all the ‘fuss’ over 9/11 fatalities? Or, my particular favourite, female grunge outfit L7, who argued that men go to war because ‘it’s their way of emulating female menstruation’? And then there is the long documented flirtation with Nazism that David Bowie, Throbbing Gristle and Keith Moon would use to generate headlines and record sales.
readytoswing
That's great Damon but why don't you tell us what you think (without links).
damon
If I said I agreed with the bloke in the link, would that make it better??
Morrissey says some Daily mail twaddle about nostalgia for times past, and how he finds modern England a somewhat alienaitig place. Mentions the ''I'' word and the NME goes: ''omg ohmy.gif omg: look what Morrissey said'' ph34r.gif .
I think the reaction is the worst thing about this story. It's the censorious climate of ''you can't say that.''
The same climate where students at Oxford University get the Daily Mail banned from the campus newsagents, and try to get a professor of demography fired, because he was the co-founder of Migration Watch.
Morrissey should know that if you say stuff like that, then you are going to get caned.
In his youth he lived in a different kind of society, where there was strong youth and music culture.

I can see why someone of a certain age might hark back to those more carefree days when things were less bland and uptight than they are now.
I have a nostalgia for the idea of post punk Manchester, and I never even lived there.
nevski
fuck me, a place/time that damon hasn't been to. ph34r.gif
Sarah lady
Morrissey's reply
barmyrob
David, the wind blows,
The wind blows
Bits of your life away.
Your friends all say,
"Where is our boy?
Ah, we've lost our boy".
But they should know,
Where you've gone,
Because again and again you've explained
That you're going to . . .
Oh, oh, oh, going to . . .
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
"England for the English",
"England for the English".
damon
QUOTE(nevski @ Dec 4 2007, 02:07 PM) *

fuck me, a place/time that damon hasn't been to. ph34r.gif

We went through Manchester Piccadilly a few times on our way to places like Blackburn and Preston in the late 70's. And we went to Maine Road on first day of the 79/80 season - after we got promoted to the first division (it was well dodgey around Moss Side back then).
nevski
normal service has been restored.
Lillian Bellamy
"Morrissey says some Daily mail twaddle about nostalgia for times past, and how he finds modern England a somewhat alienaitig place. "

No, he didn't. He said that the floodgates are open and there's too much immigration. He said you can walk doen a street in Knightsbridge and not hear a single English accent.

Read the piece.
Sarah lady
But you can walk down Knightsbridge and not hear an English accent and its not racist to say so.
I get my bus and sometimes sit there trying to work out how many languages I can hear, its fun.
Lillian Bellamy
But Morrissey was using it as an example of immigration gone mad. He was saying that it dilutes the "British identity", whatever that is. Which is quite different from your response, Sarah.
Sarah lady
And from reading it, it sounds like yet another badly written NME stitch up to me... glad to see that somethings never change, NME journalists, still behaving like wankers!
Lillian Bellamy
Interesting - I didn't read it that way at all. Particularly after learning that the NME had actually softened the original story.
Sarah lady
Learning from the NME that they'd softened it...

They've done that kind of thing so many times over the years, their mantra truly is "build em up to knock em down" - I don't believe Morrissey is racist any more than Billy is, its a typical nonsense bit of bad journalism.
readytoswing
I think Noel Gallagher said it best when he was asked if he thought Morrissey was a racist.
He claimed the News of the World would've exposed him as such a long time ago if it were true.
barmyrob
Billy Bragg, the singer-songwriter and author of The Progressive Patriot, said yesterday: "I think what he said is inflammatory. He just doesn't realise he's playing with fire. I can't help feeling there's a certain wilfulness in talking to the NME and bringing these things up.

"Do I think he's a racist? No. Do I think he's foolish to say these things? Yes I do. He's someone who used to be able to articulate an Englishness that's attractive and charming. No, he's not a racist, he's a bore. And to the old Morrissey, that would have been even worse, and I speak as a Smiths fan."

From the Indy.... FWIW
Sarah lady
Harsh words from Billy... does that mean he won't be invited to the next New Years Eve bash?!
biggrin.gif
barmyrob
I'd put money on Billy being at the Roundhouse gigs

Sadly work commitments mean I can't go sad.gif
geoff
Billy nails the issue once again.
Red Star
I'm sure the reactions from everyone on here (including a certain Mr Bragg) would have been far more vitriolic if someone such as Robbie Williams, Rod Stewart or Eric Claptout had made the same comments
barmyrob
QUOTE(Red Star @ Dec 5 2007, 12:00 PM) *

I'm sure the reactions from everyone on here (including a certain Mr Bragg) would have been far more vitriolic if someone such as Robbie Williams, Rod Stewart or Eric Claptout had made the same comments


oh fuck off
keri
morrissey's statement

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/

dec 3rd post
geoff
I don't think they are any more Morrissey's words than the alleged quotes in the NME article. More like the weekend's work of a PR hack paid to write florid press releases.

Like Red Star (to a point), I think Billy's comments reflect his proximity to Moz - if he really knows the bloke he is more likely to know how he really thinks. Or doesn't think, before (allegedly) making sweeping generalisations. Although it must be said - we are now talking about him.

I find it interesting that Moz has become an immigrant himself by choosing to live in Italy. Not, of course, that there's anything wrong eith that.
damon
QUOTE(barmyrob @ Dec 5 2007, 12:19 PM) *

oh fuck off

IPB Image
barmyrob
QUOTE(damon @ Dec 5 2007, 01:57 PM) *

QUOTE(barmyrob @ Dec 5 2007, 12:19 PM) *

oh fuck off

IPB Image


fuck off
readytoswing
QUOTE(geoff @ Dec 5 2007, 01:43 PM) *



I find it interesting that Moz has become an immigrant himself by choosing to live in Italy. Not, of course, that there's anything wrong eith that.


After living in the States of course.
Sarah lady
No he doesn't... he lives in Rome.
keri
and prior to living in Rome, he lived in LA for 7 years.
Sarah lady
He did but what I was saying is that he doesn't live in LA anymore... he's back in Europe so its not like he's got this US out look on London.
readytoswing
I never implied that he did.
Twopints
QUOTE(barmyrob @ Dec 5 2007, 11:03 AM) *

I'd put money on Billy being at the Roundhouse gigs

Sadly work commitments mean I can't go sad.gif
Billy's own work commitments make this unlikely - he'll be in Oz.
Sarah lady
QUOTE(readytoswing @ Dec 5 2007, 03:45 PM) *

I never implied that he did.


Sorry swingers, I didn't actually see Geoff's quote in your post.
keri
sarahlady, what's "he's back in Europe so its not like he's got this US out look on London." mean?
Sarah lady
Keri - why are you getting ansty with me?
What I meant was he's not 1000's of miles away talking about a long forgotten country he never visits.
I'm at work so it was written a bit throw away and I haven't got time to remedy that right now either really.
nevski
oooh handbags.
moster
Stop, I've heard this one before.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.