Greetings everyone: I pose this question to the folks in the UK who may or may not be aware of this perception: I work with several folks from former British colonies in the Caribbean and South American
(Jamaica, Barbados and Guiana to be exact) All are somewhat older people who who grew up in these respective places when they were still colonies of Great Britain. They were educated in a "British system" so they say. took an exam that would have allowed them entry upon Oxford (given a good grade). They played cricket in school, went to "football" games (your football not ours) Even today, they still referred to themselves as "British"
How do you folks in the UK react to this? Do you consider them British? I certainty am aware of what the BNP
thinks!
PS: I am told there are still significant numbers of British patriots living in the Carribean.
English half English is playing in the background

I personally believe that people should have the right to define themselves as they choose; I have met quite a number of Black people in Britain (admittedly mostly born before about 1970) who define themselves as 'West Indian' or even by the island of their birth ('Barbadian' or 'Trinidadian', say) rather than 'African-Carribean' or 'Black British'. As far as I'm concerned people from the Commonwealth (i.e. the former colonies) are as entitled to consider themselves to be 'British' as I am; though of course, the reality is that many (most?) will choose not to (I don't think many Australians, Indians, Kenyans or Canadians would define themselves as 'British'). Culturally, I think a lot of British people would have at least as much, if not more, in common with people from the Commonwealth as with those from other European states. Cricket is the classic example, but I think that the key is language. The contribution made by people from what was the Empire during two World Wars was immense, quite apart from the economic relationship (which puts Britain in those countries' debt).
However, things are changing; Britain is increasingly part of Europe, both politically and culturally and that will probably lead to changes in all our identities.
And increasingly, I think of myself as 'English' rather than 'British' because of devolution and the Nationalist movements in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I personally believe that people should have the right to define themselves as they choose; I have met quite a number of Black people in Britain (admittedly mostly born before about 1970) who define themselves as 'West Indian' or even by the island of their birth ('Barbadian' or 'Trinidadian', say) rather than 'African-Carribean' or 'Black British'. As far as I'm concerned people from the Commonwealth (i.e. the former colonies) are as entitled to consider themselves to be 'British' as I am; though of course, the reality is that many (most?) will choose not to (I don't think many Australians, Indians, Kenyans or Canadians would define themselves as 'British'). Culturally, I think a lot of British people would have at least as much, if not more, in common with people from the Commonwealth as with those from other European states. Cricket is the classic example, but I think that the key is language. The contribution made by people from what was the Empire during two World Wars was immense, quite apart from the economic relationship (which puts Britain in those countries' debt).
However, things are changing; Britain is increasingly part of Europe, both politically and culturally and that will probably lead to changes in all our identities.
And increasingly, I think of myself as 'English' rather than 'British' because of devolution and the Nationalist movements in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Thank you JBoyd for that well thought reply. Based upon my conversation with my colleagues, (I have never been to the Caribbean) these islands (and Guiana in South American) were self sufficient during the colonial period. They produced most of their food and clothing and imported much less than in today's sophisticated economy. My colleagues produly speak of their "kitchen gardens' the goats they milked, the cloth their grandmothers spun and yes the RUM.
I don;'t know if this was the British or English influence,or the African and/or Indian influence.
Little is written or spoken of in that time.

I'm English. And actually a bit Scottish.

Not British though.

Thats cause you weren't raised in the Caribbean

I always say I'm English and people always seem to feel the need to tell me I'm British!

I'm English but people always seem to feel the need to tell me I'm welsh!

Question and please pardon my ignorance: Is the UK very segregated. Do you folks have an opportunity to interact with people of East or West Indian backgrounds?

yeah james leo. i even allowed one in my car yesterday! i made him sit in the back and not speak though.

It varies; there are places where there is very pronounced segregation, and the degree of integration varies between communities. But on the whole there is a lot of mixing between different groups.
Personally, I probably feel more familiar with people from West Indian and South Asian cultures than with some from other European backgrounds, because of the shared language and because those communities have always been close by.
Those communities and cultures are changing quite quickly though.
I think that a lot of English people (and possibly the majority) would say that their lives have been enriched by living in a multicultural society.

I consider myself to be a Yorkshireman first ... but then we are different (lol)

To be more serious there is a lot of thruth in the stories that white & Asian people live parallel lives in northern towns & cities.

One final point. I live on a small close which is mixed between 'white' & 'aisian' families. About a month ago an elderly 'asian' man knocked on my door & asked if there were any Pakistani families in the area.

I'm British it says so on my passport.

I don't think of my self as English as I don't get very exited about "our" national teams (football/cricket/rugby) It's about how you view yourself I guess I used to see myself as working class and a cockney; but I have graduated and bought a house so am I middle class? I don't know.

I would fear the breakup of the union it has worked well as an economic union and could possibly lead to permanent tory government.

But a majority of scots and english seem to want to stay British so for the time being it will be so.

So British yes, cockney kinda, working class maybe English who cares? I certainly won't be driving around with a silly little flag on my car come the next football tournament

Just a quick multicultural question. theres a West Indian Caribbean Parade in London. Has anyone ever attended?

Bring on the Carnival: Hey this is pretty tame compared to the one in Brooklyn

Went to a few carnivals years ago, but not to Notting Hill - it's just too big for me.
Had some great times - the music was fantastic.

I'm English when it suits me and British other times. And half Welsh, especially when I'm in Wales.

And I'm 1/8th Roma mostly when people start slagging off gypsies.

But the family, on my Dad's side, is descended from French immigrants who settled in Buckinghamshire.

i'm mainly human. a part english. i have some Flrench in me, my family having run away from the hueganauts. right now however i feel knackered.

my lot did a lot of rape and pillaging in the past.

where i live. on the south coast of england, nearly everybody is white so i don't know many people who aren't.

i don't think there was a single non white person in my school or even my children's school.

waiting at the school gate for my grandaughter there are perhaps half a dozen children in her class who are not white and she lives in the county town.

I don't think we are a particularly racist area, just a bit inbred.. but not as inbred as norfolk

i don't think it has changed much since these statistics were compiled.

Surely then I'd be Jamaican, Trinidadian or Antiguan or something!

I don't ever consider myself to be "British", never have done. I'm English, I was born and raised in England - where is "Britain" anyway.

Jamesleo - you never fail to surprise me with your questions about the UK, they're often very baffling. I can't imagine asking the same things about the US but that might be because we get so much info on the US over here and maybe that isn't reciprocated.

I consider by myself a Billy Bragg forumer first, British second.





Wait, that sounds a bit sad, doesn't it?

Seriously, though, I identify far more with people with whom I share interests and experiences.

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Supid forum combined my posts
New post starts here:

Oh, and I get annoyed with people who think "British Isles", "United Kingdom", "Great Britain" and "England" are synonyms, so I tend to go for the UK, as it's the nation state. Except when Cornwall is involved, when I will say "Truro, England", just because the reaction is hilarious.

In reality, I don't care. It's an issue of little consequence, as far as I'm concerned.

My parents are Irish and Italian, but I was raised and educated in England, which I'd reckon makes me English.
I'd never really given my own national identity much thought until I moved to Brisbane and had to try and explain to one of the 'locals' that Pommyland wasn't a real country

My dear Sarah Lady: I am not the most traveled person here. I lived in Canada for one year but have spent no time off the continent. Thats my loss But as I said I work with these wonderful folks form Jamaica, Barbados and British Guiana. I love when they talk about cricket, foot ball and Carnival (Crop Over in Barbados)
Thats the closest I come to any UK experience.
PS If you can go to Derby when they have Carnival.

Jamesleo, its not about being particularly travelled, just that I find the questions themselves rather odd.

I hope you don't mean Derby in the UK... its not a place I'd ever want to visit, carnival or not. My sister lived there for 3 years and I've heard enough tales of how grim it is never to want to go there!

See. shows you what I know. How does Derby compare to Brixton

my co-respondent came from derby. He looked like rod stewart.

sorry, that should have gone in random thoughts

My son's GF goes to uni in Derby. She goes back to Brum at each and every opportunity.

Which says a lot about Derby, I think.

I hated going anywhere near the damned place when I was driving in the UK. It has a ring road like many other cities, however unlike ALL the other towns and cities which have ring roads that speed you past wherever it is you are, Derby's ring road brings you to frequent and seemingly interminable standstills. Thus you are stuck IN Derby which has, so far as I can recall, no redeeming features at all.

BTW, I always say English when asked what accent I have.

People here love my accent which makes a pleasant change since they have no idea what a Brummie sounds like.

I think that's the key, isn't it? I mean you can't actually have a "British" accent - only an English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish one (which are of course then split up further by region).

But was he worth it ?

Have you been asked if you know the Queen, yet?

A conversation that I had with an American girl when I lived in Southend.........

Her "Where are you from originally ?"
Me "Birmingham"
Her " Wow! Birmingham England ?"
Me "Yes"
Her " Hey, I know someone else from Birmingham England............Do you know Steve ?"

Yeah she's referring to me then Aqua.

Didn't know you originated from sunny Brum btw, which part if you don't mind my asking?

Oh and I thought that the recent success of Ozzy Osborne over in the states would give them a very clear understanding of a Brummie accent, even Cat Deeley's doing well over there too. We get everywhere.

Hi RTS, Moseley originally, then moved to Longbridge and Wilde Green before ending up in Nottingham (via Southend)


On the reverse side of the coin a friend I worked with in Southend went to do voluntary work at a Camp in the USA.
On her first morning (wearing a T shirt from the place where we both worked) she was approached by someone who asked her if she knew me !

It turned out that they had been a volunteer with us a few years before

Bloody hell Aqua, it's a small world.

So that's you and Matt W from Moseley then. Longbridge is just around the corner from me, dunno when you last went there but I'll tell you it's unrecognisable after the demise of the factory.

UB 40 Aren't they from Birmingham?
Red Red Wine Goes to my heard
There's a rat in the kitchen what I gonna do

They most certainly are james.
They're about 90% Birmingham City supporters as well which in plain terms means they are predominantly men of sound judgement and taste.

...and little footballing knowledge.

Hey Nevs, two bookies are saying Martin Jol is 3/1 on to get the job so I'm reasonably optimistic. I have a horrible feeling it will actually be some muppet like Graham Souness tho.

No, but a bloke at a plywood plant in Medford, OR., about 30 miles north of the California border, asked me if I was French.

I don't normally, because it's rude and almost unforgivable, bearing in mind the self imposed semi isolation in parts of the US, but I laughed out loud. Almost in his face.
I apologised and he instantly began asking me how much hunting goes on in England. Especially Stag hunting.

Won't bore you with the next few minutes of conversation suffice to say that he now knows that only people in Europe with far too much money and time on their hands go Stag hunting and it's primarily done in Scotland.

He, however was keen to let me know that he and "his boys" do a lot of hunting...Elk, deer, bear...

I really wish I'd replied...

"Aaaaaaah! Mai oui! Bonjour monsieur, comment sont toi ? le temps a été beau pendant la période de l'année, n'est-ce pas ?"

"Comment m'avez-vous connu étiez-vous français quand je parlais anglais tellement bien ?"

"En outre, je suis un végétarien."

I consider myself English , though both my parents were Irish born and I have a great affinity to Ireland.
There's a very true saying that the second generation Emigrants are more Irish than the Irish themselves ,
as our understanding of Irishness tended to come with rose tinted glasses.
I live in South London and know very few , in fact hardly any, people who can trace their englishness back to both grandparents.

I was born in Canada to British parents.

I was brought up in England.

I have lived in Denmark for the last 10 years.

I have been married to two Danes (still married to one of them;-)), have two sons who are Danes. But I'm proud that they won't just think of themselves as Danish.

I pay taxes in Denmark but am not allowed to vote in general elections here because it still says "British" on my passport. But I'm still in doubt about giving up my British passport in favour of a Danish one. I can vote in the UK but am gradually wondering what the point is when, for all intents and purposes, my life is in Denmark.

I work teaching other people how to speak English but spend the rest of my time mostly speaking Danish. Though I do miss speaking my language to people whose mother tongue is English.

See, it's a difficult thing cultural/national identity. I subscribe to an international perspective on the world but often miss the country I grew up in. But when I've been there for more than a week, I can't wait to get away from it again.

And while I define myself as English when asked, I tend to despise most forms of national romanticism.

I used to work with a Trinadadian of Indian origin... She had a sorta American accent.

i have a fondness for birmingham but i won't go into detail.

my co-respondent came from derby but i have never been there. He looked like rod stewart.

that is the second time in a week i have been reminded of him on here although i haven't thought about him for years!

the first other person i met from derby knew him


my mum is danish but has lived in england for 60odd years. If i try to hold a conversation with her in danish she lapses back into english very quickly.

when i spent time in denmark as a child i was always very pleased to speak to an english person.

i am quite patriotic about being danish although i have spent very little time there since becoming a grown up.



i think my dad was born in essex. He picked my mum up when he was a squaddie in an armoured car and she was a telephonist in aarhus.


i am sussex born and bred. west sussex that is.

when i met billy in a bar in copenhagen he asked me what i was doing there and i said i'm half english too

Kind of at a loss for where to put this, but Paddington, the bear from Peru, will be arrested and interrogated over his immigration status in a book marking his 50th birthday.

I am a DIRECT descendant of Queen Elizabeth the First.

With a 100% English Bloodline.

I'm Henry the VIII I am I am, I'm Henry the VIII I am.

Oh fuck off.

Highly unlikely, QE1 was born of Welsh blood her grandfather (Henry 7th) was born in Pembroke.

Please explain how ..... she officially died a virgin !! ... or are you a complete Bar steward

Beaten to it

How I laughed!

When I was in NYC people I worked with kept going on about the US war of Independence. And said stuff like did enjoy the dunking at the tea party and other stuff. Which I found brilliant and funny. Cuz I kept saying my parents came to England in 1957 and I didn't really have a British connection until then. And as for the tea my blooming ancestors in British India took ages to pick that tea and you just dump it. lol But it was cool how an British Asian kid in the US was seen by Americans as just another red coat. lol it was a trip