These two posts have been edited out completely, as they weren't worth going on with.
Maybe Toby could just delete the thread.
Full Version: Musings On Political Correctness.....
........
After nevski's tour de force in the story about the Avon firefighters (and the wankers in the bushes), I have to solemnly say, that he was right and I was wrong.
There is no such thing as political correctness.
There is no such thing as political correctness.
Suggs is asked to be the judge in a beauty contest.
Suggs being a man of principle does not like the idea of beauty contests as he feels that women parading around in swimsuits and being judged on looks alone is not very edifying. He feels it is exploiting women and degrading to all involved.
This is a typical case of Madness gone politically correct.
Suggs being a man of principle does not like the idea of beauty contests as he feels that women parading around in swimsuits and being judged on looks alone is not very edifying. He feels it is exploiting women and degrading to all involved.
This is a typical case of Madness gone politically correct.
if you feel that strongly about it Damon, fill this in, ad post it off.
then spend some time doing something about it, rather than wasting time on here.
then spend some time doing something about it, rather than wasting time on here.
No nevski, because they are probably the people who go on about ''christmas being banned'' 
, and baa baa black sheep.
What you did was the real deal.
I think you showed yourself up.
, and baa baa black sheep. What you did was the real deal.
I think you showed yourself up.
you think, you think, you think.
i can live with that. i'm sure your very pleased with yourself for showing me up for being the PC wanker i really must be... well done.
have you joined the campaign against political correctness yet? i'm sure your racist/homophobic* workmates will be very proud of you.
*delete as you feel appropriate.
i can live with that. i'm sure your very pleased with yourself for showing me up for being the PC wanker i really must be... well done.
have you joined the campaign against political correctness yet? i'm sure your racist/homophobic* workmates will be very proud of you.
*delete as you feel appropriate.
QUOTE(nevski @ Oct 7 2007, 07:59 PM) 
i can live with that. i'm sure your very pleased with yourself for showing me up for being the PC wanker i really must be... well done.
I am most upset by you using the term wanker in a negative context.
In future please use the term onanistically challenged.
Or if you feel like it - PC cunt.
QUOTE(moster @ Oct 6 2007, 05:29 PM)
Suggs is asked to be the judge in a beauty contest.
Suggs being a man of principle does not like the idea of beauty contests as he feels that women parading around in swimsuits and being judged on looks alone is not very edifying. He feels it is exploiting women and degrading to all involved.
This is a typical case of Madness gone politically correct.
Of course, you have to call asylums "care homes" these days...
QUOTE(moster @ Oct 7 2007, 02:29 AM)
Suggs is asked to be the judge in a beauty contest.
Suggs being a man of principle does not like the idea of beauty contests as he feels that women parading around in swimsuits and being judged on looks alone is not very edifying. He feels it is exploiting women and degrading to all involved.
This is a typical case of Madness gone politically correct.
Suggs being a man of principle does not like the idea of beauty contests as he feels that women parading around in swimsuits and being judged on looks alone is not very edifying. He feels it is exploiting women and degrading to all involved.
This is a typical case of Madness gone politically correct.
Munira Mirza is a real person nevski.
What would she make of this thread?
What would she make of this thread?
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 8 2007, 10:10 AM)
Depends on if she has a sense of humour or not
QUOTE(nevski @ Oct 7 2007, 07:59 PM)
you think, you think, you think.
i can live with that. i'm sure your very pleased with yourself for showing me up for being the PC wanker i really must be... well done.
have you joined the campaign against political correctness yet? i'm sure your racist/homophobic* workmates will be very proud of you.
*delete as you feel appropriate.
I get it now
(18 months too late) - this is a jokers forum, and every thing BB says from his Dorset by the sea mansion is not to be taken seriously.Should the BNP balerina be sacked?
What a mug I was for even asking the question.I'm not very good at all this Private Eye kind of humor.
we noticed.
Shome Mishtake Shurely ? (ED)
IN MEMORIAM POLITICAL DISCUSSION
So, farewell, then, generic BB Forum Poster.
“Damon, you’re talking b****cks;
I am putting you on ‘ignore’!”
That was your catchphrase.
Keith’s Mum says that despite all the contrarian posturing,
there is some thought-provoking analysis on “Spiked!”.
She says that it represents a heroic but inevitably unsuccessful attempt by ex-Trots to synthesise libertarian thinking with Dialectical Materialism in a post-modern, post-industrial context.
But perhaps she is talking b****cks as well.
E.J. Thribb (aged 17 ¾)
So, farewell, then, generic BB Forum Poster.
“Damon, you’re talking b****cks;
I am putting you on ‘ignore’!”
That was your catchphrase.
Keith’s Mum says that despite all the contrarian posturing,
there is some thought-provoking analysis on “Spiked!”.
She says that it represents a heroic but inevitably unsuccessful attempt by ex-Trots to synthesise libertarian thinking with Dialectical Materialism in a post-modern, post-industrial context.
But perhaps she is talking b****cks as well.
E.J. Thribb (aged 17 ¾)
Funniest post in ages, JBoyd.
It's going to take me a couple of more days to try to understand JBoyd's last post.
In the meantime, this is to nevski, matt and Jon.
(Isn't that a lovely Marvin Gaye song?
)
In the meantime, this is to nevski, matt and Jon.
(Isn't that a lovely Marvin Gaye song?
)QUOTE
The Sunday TimesOctober 7, 2007
Barking up the wrong tree. Rachel Johnson
It’s hard to conceive of a story more likely to inflame the “political correctness gone mad” lobby than the everyday tale of the four doggers and the fire brigade.
To recap, four firefighters were returning a few months ago to Avonmouth from Bristol’s main station in the centre of town. For reasons best known to them, the crew made an unscheduled pitstop near Circular Road on the Downs, an area popular for late-night outdoor sex or “dogging”. If you remain blissfully unclear as to what this practice entails, I shall now quote verbatim from the authoritative www.swingingheaven.co.uk website.
“Dogging is a predominantly British activity that involves outdoor exhibitionism in car parks, wooded areas and the like. The term dogging originated in the early 1970s to describe men who spied on couples having sex outdoors. These men would ‘dog’ the couples’ every move in an effort to watch them. When the swinging scene discovered that open-air sex has its own special thrill they began meeting in car parks, and the doggers found a new and rich supply of voyeuristic fun. Moreover, the doggers soon realised that these couples were actively encouraging them to watch, even performing for them, and sometimes allowing them to join in.”
As we’ve got that straight, let us rejoin our intrepid firefighters, who on arrival at this popular location disturbed four men pleasuring each other in bushes near a public convenience, and shone a torch at them.
Now one might imagine this intrusion by four men in firefighting rig, accessorised with a big red fire truck and those suggestively long hoses, would have been the cherry on the cake for the Dogging Four.
After all, as the experts tell us, the point of dogging is not just random al fresco sex in grotty laybys. It is the thrill of being watched by other strangers having random al fresco sex with strangers in grotty laybys that floats their boats. Indeed one can even imagine a full-scale Village People-style scenario, in which the delighted doggers invited the uniformed duty firefighters to join their party with cries of “Where’s the fire?” and a tremendous time was had by all.
But that is not what happened. One of the men who had been dogging on the Downs called the Terrence Higgins Trust, which campaigns mainly about Aids and HIV, and questioned why, exactly, the firefighters had tipped up at the scene. He accused the firefighters of homophobia. The trust alerted Avon Fire and Rescue Service to the incident, and there followed a three-month investigation, during which the four were suspended on full pay. At its conclusion, the service docked two officers’ pay by £1,000 each, demoted the third and gave the fourth a written warning for bringing the service into disrepute and misuse of fire equipment. It also transferred them to other fire stations. The firefighters had 26 years’ experience between them.
Predictably, the PC-gone-mad brigade went berserk.
Richard Littlejohn, in the Daily Mail, was in no doubt as to who was at fault in this open and shut case. It was the half-dressed men “going at it like labradors” of course. “Open air sex is a real criminal offence, yet – surprise, surprise – none of the men in the bushes is facing any charges. The shame, ignominy and punishment has [sic] been heaped upon the heads of the firemen who disturbed this disgusting orgy.”
A fellow firefighter told the Evening Post in Bristol: “This is a complete farce. I believe that all four officers have been let down by their senior officers when they needed their support the most. They have been treated as the criminals in this case and it has been completely forgotten that they may have witnessed a criminal activity occurring in a public place.”
Whoah there. Steady on, boys. Much as I also share the view that this sticky incident could have been dealt with differently – in an ideal world the firefighters would have not enjoyed playing their torchbeams over the bare bums of Bristol men; in an ideal world, the doggers would have shrugged off the insult; in an ideal world the clodhopping Avon Fire and Rescue Service would not have wasted taxpayers’ money and almost wrecked the careers of four officers – I cannot agree that the doggers are the criminals here, and the firefighters the victims. Littlejohn is wrong.
For a start, dogging – or to be more specific in regard to gay men, cruising – is not, in itself, a crime. It may be offensive, but like many things, it becomes an offence only if someone complains (or it takes place inside rather than outside a public convenience, Sexual Offences Act 2003, Section 71). We cannot accuse the doggers of being criminals, because they’re not, not yet, anyway.
So the millions of happy doggers in our midst – and, since you ask, there are 779,435 members of www.swingingheaven.com, and 53,823 registered members of www.dogging.co.uk, meaning there are more doggers in this country than there are members of all our political parties, which is a thought – are in the clear in the eyes of the law. Gay or straight. Whatever you may feel.
And you may feel that you would like dogging or cruising, or indeed homophobia, to be a crime whether it affronts other people or not. I respect that. But I do feel that when it comes to cruising or dogging, the men who go out seeking release on the commons or heaths of our country often do so because they have no alternative. They cannot do so at home, either because they are married, or they live with their parents, or because they are still in the closet. There is no similar excuse available for the homophobes who still enjoy vigilante gaybashing as a bloodsport.
Luckily we live in a mainly tolerant society, and Britain is kind to gays, according to Matthew Parris, who would know about these things. Homosexuality is no longer a crime but homophobia could be, if someone pressed charges. After decades of persecution by the police, the boot is finally on the foot of the homosexual in the shrubbery. The berserk brigade may not like it, but that’s how it should be, in principle.
Anyway, as it turns out, the chap who called the Terrence Higgins Trust declined to press charges (that really would be too much to bear) and instead allowed the Avon Fire and Rescue Service to sort it out. And oh boy, did they just.
I can quite see why everyone foamed at the mouth when Avon sent the firefighters home for three months on full pay. This week, however, it has ordered the firefighters to attend a two-day “equality” conference with Ben Summerskill of Stonewall and Brian Paddick, the gay former deputy assistant commissioner of the Met, entitled Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transgender Equality in the Fire Service – an Absolute Taboo?, which has been in the diary in Bristol for ages.
As punishments go, that’s a peach.
Barking up the wrong tree. Rachel Johnson
It’s hard to conceive of a story more likely to inflame the “political correctness gone mad” lobby than the everyday tale of the four doggers and the fire brigade.
To recap, four firefighters were returning a few months ago to Avonmouth from Bristol’s main station in the centre of town. For reasons best known to them, the crew made an unscheduled pitstop near Circular Road on the Downs, an area popular for late-night outdoor sex or “dogging”. If you remain blissfully unclear as to what this practice entails, I shall now quote verbatim from the authoritative www.swingingheaven.co.uk website.
“Dogging is a predominantly British activity that involves outdoor exhibitionism in car parks, wooded areas and the like. The term dogging originated in the early 1970s to describe men who spied on couples having sex outdoors. These men would ‘dog’ the couples’ every move in an effort to watch them. When the swinging scene discovered that open-air sex has its own special thrill they began meeting in car parks, and the doggers found a new and rich supply of voyeuristic fun. Moreover, the doggers soon realised that these couples were actively encouraging them to watch, even performing for them, and sometimes allowing them to join in.”
As we’ve got that straight, let us rejoin our intrepid firefighters, who on arrival at this popular location disturbed four men pleasuring each other in bushes near a public convenience, and shone a torch at them.
Now one might imagine this intrusion by four men in firefighting rig, accessorised with a big red fire truck and those suggestively long hoses, would have been the cherry on the cake for the Dogging Four.
After all, as the experts tell us, the point of dogging is not just random al fresco sex in grotty laybys. It is the thrill of being watched by other strangers having random al fresco sex with strangers in grotty laybys that floats their boats. Indeed one can even imagine a full-scale Village People-style scenario, in which the delighted doggers invited the uniformed duty firefighters to join their party with cries of “Where’s the fire?” and a tremendous time was had by all.
But that is not what happened. One of the men who had been dogging on the Downs called the Terrence Higgins Trust, which campaigns mainly about Aids and HIV, and questioned why, exactly, the firefighters had tipped up at the scene. He accused the firefighters of homophobia. The trust alerted Avon Fire and Rescue Service to the incident, and there followed a three-month investigation, during which the four were suspended on full pay. At its conclusion, the service docked two officers’ pay by £1,000 each, demoted the third and gave the fourth a written warning for bringing the service into disrepute and misuse of fire equipment. It also transferred them to other fire stations. The firefighters had 26 years’ experience between them.
Predictably, the PC-gone-mad brigade went berserk.
Richard Littlejohn, in the Daily Mail, was in no doubt as to who was at fault in this open and shut case. It was the half-dressed men “going at it like labradors” of course. “Open air sex is a real criminal offence, yet – surprise, surprise – none of the men in the bushes is facing any charges. The shame, ignominy and punishment has [sic] been heaped upon the heads of the firemen who disturbed this disgusting orgy.”
A fellow firefighter told the Evening Post in Bristol: “This is a complete farce. I believe that all four officers have been let down by their senior officers when they needed their support the most. They have been treated as the criminals in this case and it has been completely forgotten that they may have witnessed a criminal activity occurring in a public place.”
Whoah there. Steady on, boys. Much as I also share the view that this sticky incident could have been dealt with differently – in an ideal world the firefighters would have not enjoyed playing their torchbeams over the bare bums of Bristol men; in an ideal world, the doggers would have shrugged off the insult; in an ideal world the clodhopping Avon Fire and Rescue Service would not have wasted taxpayers’ money and almost wrecked the careers of four officers – I cannot agree that the doggers are the criminals here, and the firefighters the victims. Littlejohn is wrong.
For a start, dogging – or to be more specific in regard to gay men, cruising – is not, in itself, a crime. It may be offensive, but like many things, it becomes an offence only if someone complains (or it takes place inside rather than outside a public convenience, Sexual Offences Act 2003, Section 71). We cannot accuse the doggers of being criminals, because they’re not, not yet, anyway.
So the millions of happy doggers in our midst – and, since you ask, there are 779,435 members of www.swingingheaven.com, and 53,823 registered members of www.dogging.co.uk, meaning there are more doggers in this country than there are members of all our political parties, which is a thought – are in the clear in the eyes of the law. Gay or straight. Whatever you may feel.
And you may feel that you would like dogging or cruising, or indeed homophobia, to be a crime whether it affronts other people or not. I respect that. But I do feel that when it comes to cruising or dogging, the men who go out seeking release on the commons or heaths of our country often do so because they have no alternative. They cannot do so at home, either because they are married, or they live with their parents, or because they are still in the closet. There is no similar excuse available for the homophobes who still enjoy vigilante gaybashing as a bloodsport.
Luckily we live in a mainly tolerant society, and Britain is kind to gays, according to Matthew Parris, who would know about these things. Homosexuality is no longer a crime but homophobia could be, if someone pressed charges. After decades of persecution by the police, the boot is finally on the foot of the homosexual in the shrubbery. The berserk brigade may not like it, but that’s how it should be, in principle.
Anyway, as it turns out, the chap who called the Terrence Higgins Trust declined to press charges (that really would be too much to bear) and instead allowed the Avon Fire and Rescue Service to sort it out. And oh boy, did they just.
I can quite see why everyone foamed at the mouth when Avon sent the firefighters home for three months on full pay. This week, however, it has ordered the firefighters to attend a two-day “equality” conference with Ben Summerskill of Stonewall and Brian Paddick, the gay former deputy assistant commissioner of the Met, entitled Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transgender Equality in the Fire Service – an Absolute Taboo?, which has been in the diary in Bristol for ages.
As punishments go, that’s a peach.
QUOTE(barmyrob @ Oct 8 2007, 10:17 AM)
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 8 2007, 10:10 AM)
Depends on if she has a sense of humour or not
That's just about it.
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 9 2007, 03:10 PM)
Zip, I'd have punched your face in.
no bollocks'ing around.
This seems best suited for this thread. Damon posted it in the "On The Margerine" thread by accident.
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 9 2007, 10:57 AM)
It's going to take me a couple of more days to try to understand JBoyd's last post.
Damon, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
I apologize to Zippy for that little outburst. If you ever need a place to crash in London, give me a call.
If you PM me, I'll give you my number.
(Of course I know you won't, but I mean it.)
JBoyd, whether you meant it or not, you are definately on to something.
If you PM me, I'll give you my number.
(Of course I know you won't, but I mean it.)
JBoyd, whether you meant it or not, you are definately on to something.
QUOTE(Jon @ Oct 9 2007, 03:34 PM)
as this isn't the thread, I'll reposnd by saying that Mr Pearson is pretty much a knee jerk/PC person who is rumoured to enjoy the Daily Mail and the writings of Boris Johnsons' sister.
And this is what you might have been on to JBoyd.
I'm asking Jon (who lives in Bristol) about the Avon Fire and Rescue service (severely) repremanding four firemen. Kevin Pearson is the head of the service, and I heard him (on the radio) give the explanation that the men were disciplined for bringing the service into disrepute.
What that was exactly seems to be in doubt. And nevski matt and Jon seem to be filibustering and throwing spanners in the works of something so simple.
The Terrance Higgins Trust complained that four firemen had interupted a wanking session on the downs.
(Or perhaps they didn't
)This seems to been taken as homophobia by the fire service.
I have suggested that that is PC in action.
In lieu of the real facts (but that the story was more or less as told in the bristol evening post), the question should be: was Avon Fire and Rescue right to discipline these men (and have them suspended for three months, and punnish them severely - even sending them (at the end of it all), to new fire stations?
But Jon seems to want to dodge this line of thinking.
He kind of reminds me of
What is the point in giving an answer you won't understand?
Sorry Jon, run it by me again please. (I'm not the brightest, but can understand some slightly complex stories.)
Did the initial complaint come from the Terrance Higgins Trust?
Nevski wrote his longest post this year, to suggest that I (or the daily mail) were just making that part of the story up.
Were the firemen disciplined or not?
You gave me an answer?
I'm fucked if I can find it.
It might be what you matt and nevski have been doing is PC bollocks in the first degree.
(Or I might have made a complete fanny of myself.
)
What would
have made of it?
Did the initial complaint come from the Terrance Higgins Trust?
Nevski wrote his longest post this year, to suggest that I (or the daily mail) were just making that part of the story up.
Were the firemen disciplined or not?
QUOTE
What is the point in giving an answer you won't understand?
You gave me an answer?
I'm fucked if I can find it.
It might be what you matt and nevski have been doing is PC bollocks in the first degree.
(Or I might have made a complete fanny of myself.
)What would
have made of it?
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 10 2007, 12:14 PM)
You gave me an answer?
I'm fucked if I can find it.
*sigh*
you quoted in your previous post
do you know columbo is a fallen angel?
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 10 2007, 11:19 AM)
nevski matt and Jon seem to be filibustering
why was i not invited?
QUOTE(pink shay @ Oct 10 2007, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 10 2007, 11:19 AM)
nevski matt and Jon seem to be filibustering
why was i not invited?
probably because you know what filibustering means?
QUOTE(Jon @ Oct 11 2007, 08:34 AM)
QUOTE(pink shay @ Oct 10 2007, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 10 2007, 11:19 AM)
nevski matt and Jon seem to be filibustering
why was i not invited?
probably because you know what filibustering means?
And Damon doesn't ?? (Well someone had to say it)
Red Star, is this you?
I know you don't fancy another mauling by SL, but come on man.
I know you don't fancy another mauling by SL, but come on man.
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 11 2007, 12:56 PM)
Red Star, is this you?
I know you don't fancy another mauling by SL, but come on man.I wish I had that much hair
btw SL only gets at people she disagrees with. I'm sure we have similar thoughts about you
QUOTE(nevski @ Oct 7 2007, 07:59 PM)
you think, you think, you think.
i can live with that. i'm sure your very pleased with yourself for showing me up for being the PC wanker i really must be... well done.
have you joined the campaign against political correctness yet? i'm sure your racist/homophobic* workmates will be very proud of you.
*delete as you feel appropriate.
I never came on here looking for a fight with anyone nevski, I thought I might get some answeres to some questions.
And as my workmates are just the industrial working class, who work as truck drivers and warehouse staff, I don't really belive it's right to say that about them.
I'm sure you didn't mean to be so general, but if you did, (they only read tabloid newspapers, and are more inclined to listen to Talk Sport than Radio 4) that would answer the question I was asking in my very first BB forum post (post #1 of the multi ethnic London thread ), about how harshly should the West Ham fans outside the pubs in Green St be viewed, if they didn't celebrate the cultural transformation of the area.
(Because they didn't really know any better).
QUOTE(Jon @ Oct 11 2007, 08:34 AM)
QUOTE(pink shay @ Oct 10 2007, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 10 2007, 11:19 AM)
nevski matt and Jon seem to be filibustering
why was i not invited?
probably because you know what filibustering means?
are you quite sure about that Jon?
Where's that funny geezer Damon gone? I cant seem to find him! Is he off somewhere in the world filibustering?
Funny geezer I may be pink shay, (and I do enjoy a bit of filibustering it's true), but when I'm not doing that, I like to follow things like the WORLDwrite education charity, that works with young people in Africa.
Oh, there you are!
As usual Damon, I'm baffled.
Seriously, what is your point?
As usual Damon, I'm baffled.
Seriously, what is your point?
Shay? Why bother? Really, life is too short!
QUOTE(Sarah lady @ Oct 15 2007, 01:45 PM)
Shay? Why bother? Really, life is too short!
Cause at least he responds to my posts
pink shay, click on the WORLDwrite link.
You might not like this view of how Africa is, and all the politics around what is the best way foreward.
But it's a point of view - and that should count for something.
You might not like this view of how Africa is, and all the politics around what is the best way foreward.
But it's a point of view - and that should count for something.
I did click on it Damon whch is why I dont understand. What view on Africa does it offer?
I saw a bit on how "Brisish students successfully challenged the idea the African children can't cope with computers"
Well done!
Now I wish someone who explain how to afford the computers!
Even if they were donated, I know for damn sure that my school couldnt afford the electric to run them!
We can barely afford to pay the teachers or buy food or pencils!
Then, even if we could afford the electric, there is only electric every other day if we're lucky. The P7 students work til 9 in the evening using candle light!
Then, where do you store them? where do you put them in the floods?
Im not saying for one second that no schools in Uganda have them. They do. But they are european schools.
I saw a bit on how "Brisish students successfully challenged the idea the African children can't cope with computers"
Well done!
Now I wish someone who explain how to afford the computers!
Even if they were donated, I know for damn sure that my school couldnt afford the electric to run them!
We can barely afford to pay the teachers or buy food or pencils!
Then, even if we could afford the electric, there is only electric every other day if we're lucky. The P7 students work til 9 in the evening using candle light!
Then, where do you store them? where do you put them in the floods?
Im not saying for one second that no schools in Uganda have them. They do. But they are european schools.
What view on Africa does it offer?
Maybe you could contact Ceri Dingle and tell her what you think.
You have been in Uganda, and she has been in Ghana.
But remember what sarah lady said: ''life's too short''
Maybe you could contact Ceri Dingle and tell her what you think.
You have been in Uganda, and she has been in Ghana.
But remember what sarah lady said: ''life's too short''
What is it you want me to say to her?
Maybe you could talk politics with her pink shay.
I knew her slightly, years ago. She was a Revolutionary Communist Party member.
Here she is being interviewed about her views on Africa, and what she thinks is the way foreward.
It's 27 minutes long.
I knew her slightly, years ago. She was a Revolutionary Communist Party member.
Here she is being interviewed about her views on Africa, and what she thinks is the way foreward.
It's 27 minutes long.
This might be more yadda yadda, (sorry if you think it is), but I read about this story yesterday, and wondered if it qualified as PC or not. (I suspect it is).
Now before you dismiss it as out of hand, this is not the same as some white idiot saying ''If they can have 'black sections' (whether a student group, or within in the police force, or the Labour Party), why can't we have white sections?''
This story is a lot more subtle than that.
This is The School of Oriental and African Studies. A sophisticated and liberal student body I imagine.
That they have themed parties, (like an Arabian one, with Arabic food and music - and a fun sense of irony perhaps, while not going so far as to be mocking of the culture. More celebrating it, (while having a good time). It seems that the people who wanted to have an English Party, were not trying to be offensive, more were trying to be a bit ironic, and wanted to throw a good party.
But they fell foul someones idea of what was acceptable.
Maria Grasso
The University of the Easily Offended
Meet the rugby-playing student at a London university who was forced to recant after sticking up an 'offensive' poster advertising an English Party.
Amongst the colleges that make up the University of London, the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) is renowned for its multicultural atmosphere and laid-back, boho-chic, bong-hugging students. Yet when the SOAS rugby club put up posters for an ‘English’ party a couple of weeks ago, all hell broke loose.
As part of Freshers’ Week, the rugby club put up posters in the Junior Common Room (JCR) advertising ‘The English Party: No Bongos, No Shisha, No Arabic music, Free food.’ Those putting up the posters were approached by a number of students who criticised the poster for being discriminatory and racist. The complainants then proceeded to call racial affairs officers, branded the rugby team captain Tim McLellan a racist, and asked for a public apology. All the poster implied was that this would have been a typical English rugby party rather than one of the classic Arab or African-themed SOAS union parties.
I asked McLellan exactly what happened. ‘No one who approached me at the time actually said that they were personally offended, and instead criticised me on the basis that the poster was likely to offend others’, he said. ‘They also said that they felt the poster alienated non-white and foreign students.’ So it seems the students who protested weren’t even offended by the poster but rather were worried sick that the poster might cause offence to some other vulnerable students. Talk about patronising.
One student I spoke to, who preferred not to be named, alleged that one of the elected officers of the student union had spearheaded the irrational torrent of abuse against McLellan, labelling him a racist and then refusing to hear him out. It seems that, in the absence of any real political substance to student politics today, some student activists point fingers at whatever they see as a sign of hidden racism or prejudice and define themselves against it: this is more about proving how anti-racist and right-thinking one is, rather than redressing wrongs where they occur in the world. Student ‘activists’ of this breed would do best to re-examine their own political mission and the values they stand for before accusing others of being guilty of invisible sins.
Here's the rest of the story.
Now before you dismiss it as out of hand, this is not the same as some white idiot saying ''If they can have 'black sections' (whether a student group, or within in the police force, or the Labour Party), why can't we have white sections?''
This story is a lot more subtle than that.
This is The School of Oriental and African Studies. A sophisticated and liberal student body I imagine.
That they have themed parties, (like an Arabian one, with Arabic food and music - and a fun sense of irony perhaps, while not going so far as to be mocking of the culture. More celebrating it, (while having a good time). It seems that the people who wanted to have an English Party, were not trying to be offensive, more were trying to be a bit ironic, and wanted to throw a good party.
But they fell foul someones idea of what was acceptable.
QUOTE
Maria Grasso
The University of the Easily Offended
Meet the rugby-playing student at a London university who was forced to recant after sticking up an 'offensive' poster advertising an English Party.
Amongst the colleges that make up the University of London, the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) is renowned for its multicultural atmosphere and laid-back, boho-chic, bong-hugging students. Yet when the SOAS rugby club put up posters for an ‘English’ party a couple of weeks ago, all hell broke loose.
As part of Freshers’ Week, the rugby club put up posters in the Junior Common Room (JCR) advertising ‘The English Party: No Bongos, No Shisha, No Arabic music, Free food.’ Those putting up the posters were approached by a number of students who criticised the poster for being discriminatory and racist. The complainants then proceeded to call racial affairs officers, branded the rugby team captain Tim McLellan a racist, and asked for a public apology. All the poster implied was that this would have been a typical English rugby party rather than one of the classic Arab or African-themed SOAS union parties.
I asked McLellan exactly what happened. ‘No one who approached me at the time actually said that they were personally offended, and instead criticised me on the basis that the poster was likely to offend others’, he said. ‘They also said that they felt the poster alienated non-white and foreign students.’ So it seems the students who protested weren’t even offended by the poster but rather were worried sick that the poster might cause offence to some other vulnerable students. Talk about patronising.
One student I spoke to, who preferred not to be named, alleged that one of the elected officers of the student union had spearheaded the irrational torrent of abuse against McLellan, labelling him a racist and then refusing to hear him out. It seems that, in the absence of any real political substance to student politics today, some student activists point fingers at whatever they see as a sign of hidden racism or prejudice and define themselves against it: this is more about proving how anti-racist and right-thinking one is, rather than redressing wrongs where they occur in the world. Student ‘activists’ of this breed would do best to re-examine their own political mission and the values they stand for before accusing others of being guilty of invisible sins.
Here's the rest of the story.
QUOTE(damon @ Oct 18 2007, 10:34 AM)
This might be more yadda yadda, (sorry if you think it is), but I read about this story yesterday, and wondered if it qualified as PC or not. (I suspect it is).
Is there some form of objective method of defining this??????
Sounds like the usual bollocks that foes on in student unions all the time - why it's even worth alluding to is beyond me.
QUOTE(Leontien @ Oct 18 2007, 03:16 PM)
Is it just me or has Damon managed to make us discuss the same topic in 95% of the threads in this forum.
It's getting very dull...
I can't help thinking it is very important barmyrob. It might be typical student union politics, but that's exactly why it's it matters. This guy was publicly branded a racist, and forced to make a public apology.
Now some people might think that they can just come out with allegations like that, and not worry too much whether they are right or not, but I say that's completely out of order. It is PC, and ends up fueling the reactionary right, which is something I don't welcome.
I was wondering who on this forum would have been the people running to the racial affairs officer over this this poster. (It's obvious really: Sarah lady and a few others).
Now that isn't an insult or anything, as doing that might have been the right thing to do.
I think it treats people like idiots myself. (But maybe that's just me.)
Would it have been the same in Holland, where as well as the usual Arabian and African themed parties, they occasionally had an Orangie party, with people wearing clogs and such?
I think the Avon firefighters got disciplined because of this kind of mentality.
It matters in the real world.
QUOTE
History student Alex Pinkerton said: ‘I thought the English Party poster was quite funny. I didn’t expect anyone to have a problem with it. SOAS is quite reactionary in enforcing one mindset even if no one was genuinely offended.’
It’s a really bad sign of our times when a progressive and liberal college like SOAS starts banning party posters on the grounds that a few self-righteous, moral posturing do-gooders have decided that the posters are potentially offensive or discriminatory. Such censorship is apparently acceptable even if no one has been offended - worthy student officials can simply feel offended on behalf of invisible others who are supposedly too weak to speak up for themselves. As in the case of Merton College, Oxford banning the word ‘gay’, it appears that in British universities today, it is enough for a few students to shout out ‘offence!’ for bans on posters, parties, societies and words to be brought into force - even when the majority of students think these posters, parties, societies and words are not problematic.
It’s a really bad sign of our times when a progressive and liberal college like SOAS starts banning party posters on the grounds that a few self-righteous, moral posturing do-gooders have decided that the posters are potentially offensive or discriminatory. Such censorship is apparently acceptable even if no one has been offended - worthy student officials can simply feel offended on behalf of invisible others who are supposedly too weak to speak up for themselves. As in the case of Merton College, Oxford banning the word ‘gay’, it appears that in British universities today, it is enough for a few students to shout out ‘offence!’ for bans on posters, parties, societies and words to be brought into force - even when the majority of students think these posters, parties, societies and words are not problematic.
QUOTE(barmyrob @ Oct 18 2007, 01:43 PM)
Is there some form of objective method of defining this??????
I'd say not barmyrob. I think it's more of a judgement call. I say again that a lot of what is called PC turns out to be pretty dubious, (stories about councils banning black bin bags etc).
But the story about the Avon Firefighters seemed to stand up. Here's the latest from the Bristol Evening Post.
(And remember how Nevski matt and Jon treated this story).
QUOTE
FIRE CREW 'GAY SLUR' ROW IN THE SPOTLIGHT AT MEETING
10:40 - 16 October 2007
An extraordinary general meeting of the Avon Fire Authority is being held on Friday to discuss the "gay slur" row.The meeting has been called by Councillor Spud Murphy, who has labelled the decision to discipline the four firefighters caught up in the row as "barmy".
The men were punished for being on Clifton Downs without authority last June.
The Evening Post later exclusively reported that they had deliberately disturbed a gay sex session.
It is alleged they shone torches into the bushes as they drove past an area near Circular Road.
A member of the public who witnessed the incident made a complaint of homophobia against the firefighters and, as a result, they were disciplined through suspensions, a £1,000 fine and required to attend a two-day equality seminar.
They were stripped of their ranks and transferred to other stations.
The action provoked criticism, with hundreds of emails and even death threats directed at Avon's fire chief, Kevin Pearson.
Mr Murphy (Con, Avonmouth) said he would raise important issues in Friday's meeting.
He said: "I completely disagree with the line that has been taken by senior officers. More time and energy would have been better spent by the police actually investigating the criminal and lewd activity that regularly takes place at this location. The fines levied on the firemen are totally out of proportion to their actions and represent a complete waste of money. I shall be raising this issue and will be seeking to overturn this barmy decision."
Last week in Bristol, Avon Fire and Rescue Service held a major conference on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equality in the fire service which the four censured firefighters are believed to have attended as part of their punishment.
10:40 - 16 October 2007
An extraordinary general meeting of the Avon Fire Authority is being held on Friday to discuss the "gay slur" row.The meeting has been called by Councillor Spud Murphy, who has labelled the decision to discipline the four firefighters caught up in the row as "barmy".
The men were punished for being on Clifton Downs without authority last June.
The Evening Post later exclusively reported that they had deliberately disturbed a gay sex session.
It is alleged they shone torches into the bushes as they drove past an area near Circular Road.
A member of the public who witnessed the incident made a complaint of homophobia against the firefighters and, as a result, they were disciplined through suspensions, a £1,000 fine and required to attend a two-day equality seminar.
They were stripped of their ranks and transferred to other stations.
The action provoked criticism, with hundreds of emails and even death threats directed at Avon's fire chief, Kevin Pearson.
Mr Murphy (Con, Avonmouth) said he would raise important issues in Friday's meeting.
He said: "I completely disagree with the line that has been taken by senior officers. More time and energy would have been better spent by the police actually investigating the criminal and lewd activity that regularly takes place at this location. The fines levied on the firemen are totally out of proportion to their actions and represent a complete waste of money. I shall be raising this issue and will be seeking to overturn this barmy decision."
Last week in Bristol, Avon Fire and Rescue Service held a major conference on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equality in the fire service which the four censured firefighters are believed to have attended as part of their punishment.
So action that was meant to quash homophobia, has probably had the adverse effect.
Firemen up and down the country will have been turned off from leftism because of the behavoir of the Avon Fire Service.
And I daren't do a link to it, but even Richard Littlejohn seemed to be a voice of reason when he wrote about it in the Mail on Sunday. (He's very pro gay btw. Supports civil partnerships even).
If you want to read it, just google ''littlejohn avon fire''
Bloody Hell Jon. Who is The Bristol Blogger?
He really rips into you, nevski and matt.
And Leontien, sorry to be boring, but it was the filibustering obfuscation that dragged out (for so long) some of the stories and issues I have talked about.
Just read the Bristol bloggers post, and you might see there is something in it.
And the reason I mentioned Littlejohn's article about the firemen, is that like the Bristol Blogger says, the end result of this PC behavoir by the Avon Fire Service, has been to put regular (and tolerent) peoples backs up, (to piss them off).
Making them more likely to agree with Littlejohn in future.
A snippet from the Bristol Bloggers post about the ''PC industry''
He really rips into you, nevski and matt.
And Leontien, sorry to be boring, but it was the filibustering obfuscation that dragged out (for so long) some of the stories and issues I have talked about.
Just read the Bristol bloggers post, and you might see there is something in it.
And the reason I mentioned Littlejohn's article about the firemen, is that like the Bristol Blogger says, the end result of this PC behavoir by the Avon Fire Service, has been to put regular (and tolerent) peoples backs up, (to piss them off).
Making them more likely to agree with Littlejohn in future.
A snippet from the Bristol Bloggers post about the ''PC industry''
QUOTE
So why has this small, noisy, opinionated authoritarian clique of people taken it upon themselves to claim differently and deliberately set out to wreck a long-standing consensus and try to impose a new set of values upon us? And why can’t these authoritarian idiots see that it isn’t possible to impose tolerance from above in the way they want? It will miserably fail as events over the last few week have demonstrated.
OK people; I think I've cracked it. It looks like it was a case of PC all along, and that the person being accused of it, is well intentioned, but just a bit of an idiot (earning £150,000 a year).
Jon was right about the geography of the situation. I looked up the maps.
The fire engine left Temple fire station (right in the center of Bristol) late in the evening, heading for Avonmouth fire station which is a journey of under ten miles, and which the A4 trunk road is the most direct route. (It's a 20-30 minute journey at that time of night.) And Circular rd on the Downs, where the firemen shone their torches in the bushes, is directly off the A4. So I understand why Jon couldn't belive that they were charged with being in a place that they had no reason to be. But they were.
There's a whole load of information about this story, on this google search.
Gay News has had something to say about it (and The Pink Paper). Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchel was on the sunday afternoon Politics Show talking about it.
It also seems that the four firemen did not attend the Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender conference (as it was origionaly said they had been ordered to attend as part of their rehabilitation.)
They had origionaly been ordered to, but after all the publicity, they were told not to, as it would show up the fire service.
Fire chief Kevin Pearson was a key speaker at the Avon Fire and Resscue LGBT conference, and it's clear he abhors any kind of LGBT prejudice amongst his firefighters.
But I think they got it badly wrong here. The firemen were out of order, but their punishments were ridiculous. It shows an intolerence of working class culture. You can't even have a joke about transvestites?
(They come under Transgender don't they?)
And here's the clincher. This is what Kevin Pearson said about the reaction to this story.
Jon was right about the geography of the situation. I looked up the maps.
The fire engine left Temple fire station (right in the center of Bristol) late in the evening, heading for Avonmouth fire station which is a journey of under ten miles, and which the A4 trunk road is the most direct route. (It's a 20-30 minute journey at that time of night.) And Circular rd on the Downs, where the firemen shone their torches in the bushes, is directly off the A4. So I understand why Jon couldn't belive that they were charged with being in a place that they had no reason to be. But they were.
There's a whole load of information about this story, on this google search.
Gay News has had something to say about it (and The Pink Paper). Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchel was on the sunday afternoon Politics Show talking about it.
It also seems that the four firemen did not attend the Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender conference (as it was origionaly said they had been ordered to attend as part of their rehabilitation.)
They had origionaly been ordered to, but after all the publicity, they were told not to, as it would show up the fire service.
Fire chief Kevin Pearson was a key speaker at the Avon Fire and Resscue LGBT conference, and it's clear he abhors any kind of LGBT prejudice amongst his firefighters.
But I think they got it badly wrong here. The firemen were out of order, but their punishments were ridiculous. It shows an intolerence of working class culture. You can't even have a joke about transvestites?
(They come under Transgender don't they?)
And here's the clincher. This is what Kevin Pearson said about the reaction to this story.
QUOTE
Mr Pearson said: "The reaction we got from the media [shows] that homophobia is evidently still widespread in our society.
"It is not my job to make judgements about people's lifestyle. It is my job to make judgements about the behaviour and actions of my staff.
"There was no evidence of illegal or sexual activity. The reports made a connection to activities that may or may not take place on Clifton Downs.
"It is not my job to make judgements about people's lifestyle. It is my job to make judgements about the behaviour and actions of my staff.
"There was no evidence of illegal or sexual activity. The reports made a connection to activities that may or may not take place on Clifton Downs.
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