For those who don't already know, Sicko! is the title of the new Michael Moore documentary; an expose of the US health care system.

I've not seen it yet, work and baby allow almost zero free time, but plan to ASAP.
The media interest has been muted, so far as I can tell. Especially here in the north west.

However, after a year of living on this side of the pond my initial reaction to the way the system works here, which was pretty much, "this is fuckin' criminally insane" has morphed into a feeling which is almost indescribable. I, and possibly many Americans do just this exact same thing in order not to go crazy and be able to get from day to day, deliberately don't think about health care. To do so renders me apoplectic with either rage or nausea or both.

Moore's film comes at just the right time.

Just got an email from the Michael Moore mailing list which is in part a Memo sent from Barclay Fitzpatrick, the VP of corporate communications of Capital BlueCross. He's seen Sicko! and he's worried.
Many things jumped out from the memo, forwarded to Moore by a BlueCross employee, BTW, but this one in particular caught my eye.



No one is ever denied service because they can't pay.

This is true, in the UK at least. Barclay can barely conceal his distaste for this concept and appears to ridicule Moore for "repeatedly" pointing it out.

And this is priceless...



It's all our fault. FFS!

But yes, Barclay, Americans should feel ashamed. Not because they believe they have the best health care system in the world when they patently do not, but because they cling to some weird misguided notion that anything social must therefore be liberal and therefore, by definition Commie and thus BAD!

The war in Iraq has thus far cost $441,364,821,550.

That's so much money I can't even say it. Admittedly I'm crap at math but I do know that's a lorra lorra cash and it's barely made a dent in the fiscal health of the country. Evidently money can be found and in staggering quantities, when there is a despot to be "taken out" or oil supplies to be secured. The same politicians who authorise spending on the military at this level will tell their electorate that the US simply cannot afford to support a universal healthcare system. Like so many, usually but not exclusively, right wing politicians, they LIE.

I've not got a pair of rose coloured specs. Even if I had I wouldn't be seeing the UK through them when I say that the NHS might have it's faults. It might not deliver everything you want just when you need it every single time but by god don't ever, EVER, let a politician open his lying gob and start telling you "we can't afford it".

That complete shite Blair has gone. We know he had tentative plans to move to a US type healthcare system, so keep an eye on Gordon. Don't let the former chancellor even think about picking up where Tory left off.

I do my bit. As you can imagine I am frequently asked where I'm from and how I like living in the US. I now have my "rant" well rehearsed and leave my questioners in no doubt as to my feelings regarding their health "care" system. As each day passes it grows harder to reconcile my delight at being married to Maria and being a father again at my ripe old age - 21 for those who don't know - with my utter horror at being at the mercy of the worlds - and I make no apology for this assertion, being fully aware of the complete lack of healthcare in numerous regions of the world - WORST healthcare system.

That memo can be found in full here.

In-FUCKING-credible!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2007/0..._from_moor.html


I'm at a loss for words.

Incredible but to be honest I think it can only be a good thing for the film and the campaign and will make the Government look even more absurd.
I get the impression from the Michael Moore mailings I get that things are starting to really move in the US. Obviously I know most of what he writes in those things is just rhetoric but how does it seem over there LitUS? I really hope this will give them a kick up the arse to get you guys proper health care.

I've had two conversations with people who haven't seen the movie but think Moore is a dickhead and if the US had universal free healthcare it wouldn't work because all the "illegals" would undermine it and you can get treated anyway if you go to the emergency room or you could until all the "illegals" turned up and clogged up the system.

Honestly. I wonder how these people can function from day to day, be alive even, when they so obviously have no actual brain.

Moore loves this kind of shit. Herein lies the problems of Michael Moore. We're talking about him instead of universal health care. I's the Kervorkian delimma.

It is interesting how Michael Moore became a cult of personality, which I don't honestly believe he meant to do in his films. They are about the issues, NOT about him. I suppose it's the fault of a bad, entertainment based news media and the unthinking public who eats it up.

Though perhaps his mug taking up half of the movie poster doesn't help:


As for Sarah's comment, I don't see things "moving" in the US yet. Sure, politicians are talking about it alot, but nothing tangible is actually happening. Medical prices are as high as ever, and as many of us are uninsured as ever.

(Actually, there has been movement for me. I got 5 packs of black market birth control! Woo! Sneaky nurses are about the only people in this industry on our side.)

Sorry, Sarah, that I forgot to answer. Jessica is right, nothing tangible will happen in the US until Bush is out of office. Here is a pretty good article on where the Democrats stand. The chart embedded in the article is a good summary. I, obviously prefer Edwards' plan, but Obama's might be more pragmatic and achievable. I am somewhat wary of Clinton on the issue given the overwhelming donations she has received from the medical industry...


Don't use them all at one time!!

Thanks for that article and chart, Left, it's really helpful. I agree with you that John Edward's plan is by far the best, not only because it's all encompassing, but because he's the only one with a real preventative program that targets where most of our disease comes from (bad nutrition in our schools!) Yes, Obama's is more realistic, but I take the approach of ask for it all and see what we can get. By going halfway with Obama's plan, we may end up with nothing.

I actually find Hillary's plan to be insulting at some points. "Reduce use of inefficient and ineffective treatments." Um, if they are ineffective we need to ELIMINATE them! I don't buy her "war scars" from the 90s as giving her credibility on the issue. As I read this proposal, it almost looks as if she's given up.

oh they're also about him... don't be fooled jessica.

Maybe so but I think I'd rather live with that if that's the price of having his films on the world stage.

Thanks for that link LitUS, I didn't have time to read it all but I did look at the chart.
What I just don't understand in all the plans is still the reliance on health insurance, not actual health care.
Why should everyone have to jump through hoops just to make sure the care they've had is paid for?
I have a lot of criticisms about the country I live in but the NHS, despite its numerous faults, is still one of the best things ever and we all take it completely for granted.

That remains a serious problem. The insurance industry remains a serious lobby, one that politicians don't seem to have the guts to alienate. The pragmatist in me says that they must ultimately be part of the solution. The human in me however wants to go punch some insurance exec in the nose. Especially when we get a letter from our insurance company like we did the other day which said they would not pay for a medicine that Mrs. Left's doctor prescribed because they believe it was not effective in treating that for which Mrs. Left was diagnosed. Apparently some insurance adjuster feels the their background in business outweighs a physicians background in medicine when it comes to determining what is effective for a patient. My favorite line from the letter (paraphrased): "Our decision to deny you coverage does not prevent you from purchasing the medicine at your own expense." Well, fuck you very much that!!

I'm speechless, that is such an utter disgrace - how is that even legal?!

It reminds me of a line in an old song: You can eat your fill of all the food you bring yourself.

Over here it works like this:
Government defines a basic set of coverage (treatments and medicines) that each insurance company needs to offer. The companies also need to accept anybody that applies for this basic insurance.
Because they are all obliged to offer this same basic set, the rates between companies are easily compared, competition is great which keeps the price for the basic insurance down.
And everybody is guaranteed that these basic treatments and medicines are always covered. This medicine/treatment list is updated every two years, so that does mean that the latest and newest medicines are often NOT covered for a max of 24 months, but their more old fashioned predecessors are.

This basic set covers eh, the basics. So anything that requires hospitalisation is covered, doctor visits, and dental care for under 18s.

Besides this basic set of care you can add some specific insurances for therapies (eg physio), family planning (extra maternal care, fertility treatments), dental care for over 18s, cosmetic treatments. Whatever you fancy.

Everybody pays a flat rate of 100 euros per adult per month (under 18s are free). Besides this, 6 percent of anybody's paycheck goes to the insurance company of their choice.

100 euros a month is a lot if you are on benefits, but it's still affordable, if only just.

I think the way we finance our health care system is good. The way it functions, is a different matter, one that really doesn't have that much to do with the amount of money that is put in, but more with the fact that they are trying to force hospitals into competition with one another.
Hospitals are not open markets and trying to force them to behave as such costs a lot of unnecessary paperwork and management that should be spent on better customer care. But that's a different story.

I recall when I was in Amsterdam, that one of the people we met from New York fell off a car and broke his leg one night and the hospital stitched him up without payment.

Sarkozy wants to introduce a flat rate here as well, but many people think it's unfair. I don't really see how you could afford to pay €100 a month if you are on benefits (even if you're not actually). It seems huge (or it would be huge to me). However here they're talking about €40 as monthly flat rate, and they're saying that people in benefits or on low wages wouldn't have to pay it, but still. I think it's pretty unfair. I don't understand why everybody should pay the same, while some people are so much richer than others. It doesn't make sense. A fair social and health system based on solidarity should make sure that the poorest people can have access to health, and therefore the richest people should pay more. It's the purpose of the tax system at the end of the day.

At the moment, in France, to fund the system, money is taken directly from the wages as well as the tax. It pays what we call the "social security" (which include health). The health part is managed by a national body which is private but has a public service delivery mission (therefore under public control). It is the same body which deals with everybody. It covers around 70% of the cost for most things - if you pick the doctors which are part of the National Health system (but most of them are). For the 30% left, you can get a mutual insurance company (which are part of what is called the third sector or the social economy, and are not insurance as such but are supposed to be run by the people for the people in a co-operative manner - although in reality many of them look like private insurance companies). Usually, you can get a "Mutuelle" (as we call them) through your work, and depending on your company and the agreement which have been signed between the company (through the joint production committee, and in particular the trade unions) and the "Mutuelle", you get a more or less good deal. The company pays a part of your "Mutuelle" for you. If you're lucky, it pays the biggest. In my case for instance, my monthly rate for my "Mutuelle" is €12 (while my employers pay €35). And it covers everything. The only thing which is not well reimbursed, in my case, is dental care (it's the weakest point of the system). I don't know about the statistics, but I'm pretty sure that many people don't have a Mutuelle, as they can't afford it or they choose not to. However, as everybody living in France has to be part of the Social Security system, they always get around 70% of the costs reimbursed.

As for family, children are automatically part of the social security system, so they don't pay anything as such. However, it's different if they have a Mutuelle. Then, families have to pay, but usually a very small contribution. Same thing working for partners if they are unemployed or foreigners. In my case for instance, my british partner was entitled to my social security number when he arrived in France and therefore to access to the health system.

Public hospitals are included in the system, as they are part of the National Health system. However, even if you go to a private clinic, it is possible to have most of the medical costs reimbursed.
But hospitals are also under much stress, as they have to fill mad objectives which have nothing to see with their first mission of delivering good health care for everybody, no matter what.

Another great thing of the system, introduced by the Jospin Government in 1997, is what we call "la couverture médicale universelle": if you don't work, and have been unemployed for quite a long time (or have never worked), you can also get the Social Security and thus access to the Health system (even though you don't contribute to the system anymore, as you don't work and don't pay tax). Basically, everything is completely free. You pay nothing, whether it's for your eyes, for your teeth, for the hospital... One of the difficulties, however, is that some doctors refuse to take patients who are in this situation, as they are not paid directly but have to get reimbursed afterwards by the health body.

Obviously, everything I'm writing now might be history soon, as Sarkozy wants to change the system and to get closer to a Dutch model (some people in the French government have actually been talking about it as one of the models to look at).
Even though there is a huge deficit in the social security system and money is needed, I believe (like many other people) that it is through the tax system that we can only find the solution, or at least part of the solution... But the problem is that Sarkozy has just made a huge reform to change the tax system so that it benefits to the richest, which are going to pay much less... and therefore the deficit is going to get much bigger no matter what. So, at the moment, there is a huge uncertainty about the future of our health system. But, at the same time, many people (even on the right) are very attached to the current system, and believe that it is a very good system. So I guess it's gonna be a big battle after the summer.


NB: In hospitals in most countries, you don't necessarily have to pay when you get treated for an emergency . However, it is your national health body which is supposed to reimbursed the costs directly to the hospital. It's getting even more complicated in the EU, as there is a new trade : many patients move countries to get a specific medical treatment. There was the case of a british woman coming to France to get a treatment and not being able to be reimbursed by the NHS. She went to the European Court, won and now there is a jurisprudence, so that it is possible under specific circumstances to go abroad in the EU for medical treatment and to get reimbursed by your own insurance or national health system. As for insurances and Mutuelles, it is even more complicated...

I think you missed the part where 6 percent of your paycheck goes towards paying your insurance... So if you don't have any income, you pay 100 euros, the rest pays more. If you earn considerably more, you pay considerably more. 6% of a 50.000 euro salary is 3000 euros a year for the health service.
Besides, the benefits have been increased to compensate for this new cost. In the previous system, which was probably like the french, you still paid 30 euros a month, only that was deducted beforehand by the government so it seemed "free".

And I'm sure many americans would LOVE to have an insurance this good for 100 euros a month...

Sorry, I laughed when I read that.

I worked for a health insurance company for a while some years back - and I work for a company that pedals insurance. Now, as then - the folks that work in the claims sections, didn't and don't have a relevant background, business or otherwise. Most of them are stuck in a dead end job they don't want to be in or fully understand and 'paint by numbers' and although there are regulations, the folks that make these decisions are in a different part of the country, so the 'adjusters' have to rely on the answer to whichever badly worded question they asked.

I can't get health insurance, I'm asthmatic which means that most sickness cover can be underwritten away - luckily for me the NHS provides most of what I've ever needed, so I've no need to even consider health insurance.

Oh yes, I'm sure many americans would love to have that system, no argument here!!

But I still find it quite expensive, compared to what we have over here anyway. (How much are the benefits in Holland? In France, you get 70% of your salary for around 2 years I think, and then it starts to get down very quickly).

At the moment, I'm actually working on social and health services in the EU, and just went to a seminar last month about the different systems in the EU and the privatisation of the national health service in many parts of it. Even though I think the national health system has still to be improved, I'm not convinced by the system of private insurances and flat rate. However, I also can see that the Dutch system seems to work quite well in Holland. But I guess I believe that health, like education, are basic public services and therefore should be run as such. Maybe I'm wrong. However, until today, the French health system was great, and I don't see why it couldn't be anymore (even though with a longer life expectancy and the new type of health consumption, the system must change in some ways... it's another debate, but I'm working for a party which believes that costs could be reduced by diminishing the causes of diseases, especially when it is environmental and social causes).

The health system doesn't seem free to me in France. However it is true that it is difficult to know exactly how much goes to health from our wages, as the social contributions include other stuff, such as pensions and unemployment benefits. But the main difference here is that if you don't have any income, you don't have to pay any flat rate for health. You actually don't have to pay anything.

I think benefits in France and Holland are more or less the same.

But my point is that even though everybody pays the flat rate, if your only income is provided by the state, the money you receive has been increased due to the increase in your health insurance. It's "shirt-pocket, trouser pocket" as the dutch expression says: you get more money but you have to give it to the insurance company. The only thing this does is maybe make people more aware of the cost of insurance maybe.

I Absolutely agree with you there. The current (european) ideas that market forces need to be introduced in the health services are just VERY WRONG. It is also why I voted against the new european constitution.

Well, it's a complete another story, but you know me, if you start talking about the EU Constitution, I can't help but answering.
The EU Constitution had an article about introducing a law on public services, a law that the European Trade Union Confederation had lobbied for successfully, as well as other organisations from civil society (such as CELSIG - an european organisation for public services). We don't have this article anymore, and since the NO vote in your country and mine the different reports voted in the European parliament as well as the positions in the Council have been much worse than before. We had achieved something with the EU constitution, we lost it and we're going backwards.

Today more than ever, I think that the NO votes have pushed the EU towards a much more right wing and nationalist agenda.
And the current talks on social and health services can show it (with the Vignaux report in the EP and so on).


As for the health system, I guess one of the differences between the one in Holland and the one in France is that it is still a national service public in France, therefore the State doesn't need to give you money to pay your insurance (if you don't have any income) but is only supposed to make sure to provide a good health system.
Regarding the flat rate that my government would like to introduce, if I'm relieved that they're now saying that people on low wages won't have to pay it, I'm afraid that people - like me - earning slightly more but not so much, will have to pay much more than we're paying at the moment.

So, Barbara, after all these years, you're still pissed off at him?

The movie is excellent, and people have been leaving the theatres angry, and determined to move to France!

Still, it's good impetus to organize and step up campaigns for universal health care in the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=12571734

From the story description:

"Vaccines are funded by a patchwork of public and private sources. While some private health insurance plans cover recommended vaccines for children, an increasing number of plans require patients to pay out of pocket for many of the vaccines.

And the vaccines, especially newly recommended ones, are very costly."

Can you say "that's fucked up"?




Sarah, not only is that legal in the US, it's the standard. I'd bet everyone here who actually has insurance has some similar clause in their coverage.

And yes, it is a disgrace. There is no solution until we get rid of all the private insurance companies.

Back before Bush screwed up the Prescription Drug Plan, one of the biggest concerns about universal health care came from the participants in the Federally-backed Medicare program who were worried that changes would somehow impact their program. Rather than talk about universal health, or single payer, it is probably just easiest to conceptualize it as Medicare for all.

You have got to be shitting me. You have to PAY to get your child immunised in America?
Seriously?

And exactly how is it still called the land of the free?

We have to pay for EVERY medical procedure here, no matter what it is.

Oh... and most medical insurance doesn't cover the cost of birth control.

We pay for prescriptions here in England (in Wales they are completely free, not sure about Scotland currently) at £6.85 a go but that is only for those over 18 (and under 65) who can afford to. Most GPs will tell you if what they are going to prescribe is cheaper over the counter so you can just buy it and birth control is completely free regardless.

As I said, whatever people say about the NHS, we really shouldn't take it for granted!

According to the Administration, expansion of the Children’s Health Insurance Program is bad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/washingt...amp;oref=slogin


God forbid more children have health insurance. This will take away the parent's incentive for purchasing private insurance.

In conversation with a fellow driver yesterday he said this in response to my concerns over the US healthcare system - I said it stank and if I got sick I'd be on a plane back to the UK, sharpish - "I've heard the health care systems in Europe are pretty bad"

He said this in all seriousness.

From where would he have gleaned this nugget of information, I wonder?

Naturally I went on to recount at least three, maybe four medical stories, just one of which he conceded would have set him, or any American, back 8 to 10 THOUSAND dollars even WITH insurance.

In the UK? FREE. Nada. Nothing. Go to the hozzy, get treated, go home.
In the US? So much money it doesn't bare thinking about.
Why, Barb, anybody, please tell me, are so many Americans so shit scared of everything?

We also discussed military service and the possibility of me becoming a US citizen.
I told him that I had a problem with pledging allegiances. Especially to bits of coloured material.
This didn't go down as badly as I might have expected. He said he respected my position, elaborating as I had with some references to England, Half English and what it means to be a Brummie, English, British and European.

But I wonder why so many Americans will don a uniform and go overseas to get killed, in my opinion for nothing more than to assuage a frat boy's ego, but wouldn't dream of marching in the streets to protest the strangle hold corporate America has over their health and healthcare.

Sadly my tanker got full before he had time to answer this one.

I'm a subscriber to the very excellent RockRap Confidential (helmed by writers Dave Marsh and Lee Bollinger), got this alert today. It makes me crazy that people in this country can work their whole lives and ending up the subject of a benefit.

Hi ... this is John McEuen... from Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

do you know of George Grantham?
drummer/singer for the early country rock band POCO... they splintered in to many groups including Eagles.. Loggins & Messina... Buffalo Springfield

I am helping his wonderful daughter Gracie raise money for her stroke victim father with her EBay auction.. is there anywhere You can send this information to, to get this word out, to help her raise money ? she is doing it 'on her own', and needs any help she can come by.. he is a wonderful guy, but can no longer pursue a music career due to his stroke.. he worked hard at his love of Poco music for 35 years, was (and is) always 'a nice guy'.. and has many people who admire him.. it is simple.. she needs to get the news out.. she needs help.. it can work..
and if you want to send any of your 'junk' others may find valuable, it will get taken care of.

here's the news I am asking you to send:

////////////

"From the hits Crazy Love to Heart of the Night and much more, POCO's George Grantham, the great drummer of seminal country rock from the West Coast, set the rhythm for the group that influenced many. The band is still performing those hits today, but a stroke of 3 years ago took George off the road as the band plays on; keeping tabs on him for all his fans can be done at their website : poconut.com.

George's daughter, Gracie, has pitched in to help defray medical costs by asking George's many cohorts and admirers on the performing side of music to send her some of their valuable 'music business paraphernalia', which is going up for sale on EBAY to the highest bidder. As John McEuen (Nitty Gritty Dirt Band) says: "In this day of higher and higher value for things of sho biz history, this is a good chance to latch on to something cool, at a good price, for a great cause, and help someone who brought great music to so many. POCO opened for us.. their first L.A. gig, at the Troubadour.. and blew us away. A year later we went looking for a singing drummer like George, who was always thought of as the Ringo of country-rock."

Spread the word.. check out the stuff, all good. All proceeds go to defraying medical costs for George and his family. The name of the auction at ebay is:
puttingheadstogether

It is running starting Oct. 2 thru Oct. 9

and is easily found on google and the net.
and other info at: www.poconut.com
lower right corner

previous and ongoing donors include:

Timothy Schmit Kentucky Head hunters Scotty Moore
Steve Wariner DJ Fontona Don Henley
Richie Furay Chris Hillman
Graham Nash the Orleans Band
John McEuen (of Nitty Gritty Dirt Band) Jim Messina
Kenny Loggins Charlie Daniels R.E.M.

If you have something to add to the available swag, contact Gracie at: Paradddle@aol.com


//////////
The donation link is at the top of the page:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog&pop=1


and if you are sending things:
Gracie Grantham
910 8th ave apt 1515
Seattle WA 98104

other info at:
Gracie
myspace.com/graciesday

For more information on the Putting Heads Together eBay auction for the
Benefit of George Grantham visit the Back Bone List at : http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BackBoneOfOurGroup/

direct donations not involved with the auction, to send cards, letters, and to get things signed by George, go to:
George Grantham Benefit fund
George Grantham
PO Box 128523
Nashville TN, 37209

I'm a subscriber to the very excellent RockRap Confidential (helmed by writers Dave Marsh and Lee Bollinger), got this alert today. It makes me crazy that people in this country can work their whole lives and ending up the subject of a benefit.

Hi ... this is John McEuen... from Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

do you know of George Grantham?
drummer/singer for the early country rock band POCO... they splintered in to many groups including Eagles.. Loggins & Messina... Buffalo Springfield

I am helping his wonderful daughter Gracie raise money for her stroke victim father with her EBay auction.. is there anywhere You can send this information to, to get this word out, to help her raise money ? she is doing it 'on her own', and needs any help she can come by.. he is a wonderful guy, but can no longer pursue a music career due to his stroke.. he worked hard at his love of Poco music for 35 years, was (and is) always 'a nice guy'.. and has many people who admire him.. it is simple.. she needs to get the news out.. she needs help.. it can work..
and if you want to send any of your 'junk' others may find valuable, it will get taken care of.

here's the news I am asking you to send:

////////////

"From the hits Crazy Love to Heart of the Night and much more, POCO's George Grantham, the great drummer of seminal country rock from the West Coast, set the rhythm for the group that influenced many. The band is still performing those hits today, but a stroke of 3 years ago took George off the road as the band plays on; keeping tabs on him for all his fans can be done at their website : poconut.com.

George's daughter, Gracie, has pitched in to help defray medical costs by asking George's many cohorts and admirers on the performing side of music to send her some of their valuable 'music business paraphernalia', which is going up for sale on EBAY to the highest bidder. As John McEuen (Nitty Gritty Dirt Band) says: "In this day of higher and higher value for things of sho biz history, this is a good chance to latch on to something cool, at a good price, for a great cause, and help someone who brought great music to so many. POCO opened for us.. their first L.A. gig, at the Troubadour.. and blew us away. A year later we went looking for a singing drummer like George, who was always thought of as the Ringo of country-rock."

Spread the word.. check out the stuff, all good. All proceeds go to defraying medical costs for George and his family. The name of the auction at ebay is:
puttingheadstogether

It is running starting Oct. 2 thru Oct. 9

and is easily found on google and the net.
and other info at: www.poconut.com
lower right corner

previous and ongoing donors include:

Timothy Schmit Kentucky Head hunters Scotty Moore
Steve Wariner DJ Fontona Don Henley
Richie Furay Chris Hillman
Graham Nash the Orleans Band
John McEuen (of Nitty Gritty Dirt Band) Jim Messina
Kenny Loggins Charlie Daniels R.E.M.

If you have something to add to the available swag, contact Gracie at: Paradddle@aol.com


//////////
The donation link is at the top of the page:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog&pop=1


and if you are sending things:
Gracie Grantham
910 8th ave apt 1515
Seattle WA 98104

other info at:
Gracie
myspace.com/graciesday

For more information on the Putting Heads Together eBay auction for the
Benefit of George Grantham visit the Back Bone List at : http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BackBoneOfOurGroup/

direct donations not involved with the auction, to send cards, letters, and to get things signed by George, go to:
George Grantham Benefit fund
George Grantham
PO Box 128523
Nashville TN, 37209

Another one for the file...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/333740...cermatch01.html

As expected, he vetoed it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/03/washingt...amp;oref=slogin


Well at least he's being honest. Let's just hope people connect the dots. The reason it is bad that people leave private insuarnce is...

Jon Stewart skewers the Bushies nicely on this one I think.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/06/t...h-vetoes-schip/

If it wasn't for the Daily Show I don't think I could watch any news without weeping uncontrollably. Such mean, cruel douchebags are running my country.

As a member of the Labour Party I am enormously proud of the NHS and grateful for (and to) it.
However, there is a very real danger that we overlook the very real risk to it and the gravity of its failings; the Healthcare commission has just produced a judgement that internal failures were responsible for the deaths of ninety (90) hospital patients in Kent from C-Difficile. The descriptions of the conditions that some of those people ended their lives in are heartbreaking.
And whilst the percentage of older people who are admitted to hospital suffering from malnutrition is shocking (more than 50% on some estimates) the fact is that even more are malnourished on discharge. That is appalling. And given the expenditure on the system over the last ten years, underinvestment really can't be blamed any more.

Not to minimize in any way the deaths of 90 individuals, but the failings of the NHS seem to pale in comparison to:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/health...ance-deaths.htm


About recolonization in exchange for the NHS, is that still on the table?

I went to the ER twice in Long Island. one was not the best ER and but the other was the medical bay on the starship enterprise. never seen anything like in the UK. but both hospital staff were very good and looked after me very well. Got some wicked pain killers like vicodin and percocet, that we don't get in England. But boy I was glad I had travel insurance. But I was shocked, that you have to pay for the ambulance to the ER.

That's about half the number that die in the UK due to the combination of cold and fuel poverty every year - and a significant proportion of those deaths could be avoided.



Well, I still think that you'd do well out of that deal (especially if, as is the case with Scotland and Wales the English subsidised you to provide a better deal than we get).
However, the NHS is in crisis; we can't blame underinvestment any more and whilst some of it is the result of Labour's obsession with market economics, a lot of it is also the result of the 'localist', decentralised approach that is advocated across the political spectrum from the Left through to the Tories.

Apparently, not enough of his own party must have been angry since Congress just failed to override the veto.

I need your opinions.

My husband has been making a video for our local National Healthcare Now group. Here is a short version on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z6elcQkJu4#GU5U2spHI_4

Please comment on the page. It's also on Google video.

Barbara: this is great Kudos to your husband. With your permission, I would like to post a link on the Thom Hartmann site; www.thomhartmann.com

Thanks, James. Anybody who would like a copy to show to their political group or city council, let me know and we can get the full version out to you. We want local governments to support HR676, so the wider the ripple, the better.

Will do so: Check out my other post about a clearing house for health care in other countries. I believe (as do you) Americans are getting misinformation that accounts to nothing less than HMO propaganda. You are in an interesting place as your are minutes from the Canadian border

I can SEE socialized medicine from my desk at work. It's maddening.

I do think we should keep the healthcare stuff in a single thread, it's less confusing that way.

Fine: What I would like to see if we can get folks from the UK, Scandavia, Canada to post their health care experiences. Do you see that as a possibility ? Is it feasible?

I've asked some of the people here to send me their experiences through PM's - we have used the info at a couple of town halls. But I'd like to see them post here, the good and the bad.

Can we keep health care conversations here? It's too confusing to have two identical threads.

I don't know about recolonization but I work near the hole that was the WTC and across the street is a huge discount department store Century 21. I swear half of London is there buying everything that isn't nailed down. Now you folks are purchasing Manhattan real estate so maybe its happenning.
I have folks in the Caribbean saying UK retirees are moving to Barbados and Jamaica and buying all of the beach front property. Colonization made possible with a strong pound.

The NHS is a fantastic concept and has worked very well; like most British people, I'm very grateful for (and to) it. However, it has suffered from too much political interference (especially the imposition of market economics models) and bureaucratisation.
The standard of treatment is generally very high; the standard of care, however, seems to be declining. And there is a massive problem with social care.
So, an all too typical scenario would see someone needing, say, a hip replacement getting the actual surgical procedure performed reasonably promptly, successfully and free of charge. However, the likelihood that they would then contract an infection such as MRSA is unacceptably high. And if they required long term care at home after the op, they'd probably have to pay for it.
There are some massive pressures on the system resulting from an ageing population, and particularly an increase in numbers suffering from dementia.