This just sums it up for me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4781804.stm

Me, too.

So, are we done here then?

Aw geez, Zip. If only.

Still here babs, why not simply piss off if you dont wanna contribute to the debate, or is that concept just too hard for you to grasp yet.???

Yet again just for you Babs, this is a forum for discussing politics, now the way it works and stay with me here babs, is we discuss issues, some issues we will not all agree on because if we did then this forum would be pretty well dead wouldnt it. Or it would be full of people just kissing each others arses and agreeing.

As i said before Babs you may not wish to enter the debate and so be it its your right, but just because you dont want to doesnt give you the right to wish to deny others with your constant irrelevent posts and general insults to anyone who doesnt agree with you and your political views.

Got that yet Babs,,,i do hope so.

Little Steeve, I mean leeds steve, you want an all white world, where white men police the colored, where white men get more money and the little wimmin stay at home, where you are restored all that has been taken from you by the awful hairy legged wimmen and the swarthy foreigner. I hope every day you live in this modern world is an affront to your poor white manly sensibility. I don't know what is more pathetic to see, your hatred or your fear. They stem from the same place.

You want to live in a world where all forms of government do not represent its citizens? You call that political correctness? Disgusting.

This from todays Daily Mirror made me have a little chuckle......
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm...-name_page.html


March 2006
NURSERY RHYME IN RACE ROW
By Richard Smith
NURSERY school bosses have ordered the words of the rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep to be altered to Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep - to avoid offending children.

The change was made after teachers examined the nursery's approach to equal opportunities.

Manager Stuart Chamberlain could not explain why people singing or listening to Baa Baa Black Sheep would be insulted.

But he said: "No one should feel pointed out because of their race, gender or anything else.

"We've taken the equal opportunities approach to everything we do.

"This is fairly standard across nurseries. We are following stringent equal opportunities rules."



The change at the Sure Start Centre in Oxford follows a raft of others made to traditional songs and games across the country.


The Seven Dwarfs have been cut from the title of Snow White, the ending of Humpty Dumpty has been changed "so as not to upset children" and schools have banned "dangerous" conkers in playgrounds.

Barbara love, piss off, youve managed to contribute ziltch yet again and your are such a n old bore. Dont fucking click the link, simple as.

Over 5 thousand posts since 2003 suggests what a boring life you must have to feel the need to inhabit this board almost permantly and then post trash or generaly insult those you disagree with instead of entering into sensible debate.
And before you get all high and mighty again and start bellyaching about me insulting you, well babs its like this love - he who casts the first stone - Babs just ignore me love, carry on spouting your utter shite my way and i will continue to give you it back now. The balls in your court, im more than happy to give you your little battle if thats what you want. In fact its probably what you need to fill your overwise emtpy life.

Heres to the next 5000 posts eh babs.

And not forgetting the grand old duke of york who had 10 thousand people made up from a cross section of society.

And guess what Babs, youd be fucking shocked if i told you my wife was black, thought id save that little gem for another day, but now seems the right time to piss all over your matches.
That makes my girls mixed race as well.

Well I don't know about anyone else, but that little piece of news has completely shaken me to the core.

Who would have thought it?

Not me, that's for Sure.

Leeds Steve actually found someone to marry him?

leeds mate u r a star buy u a beer anyday

they should fucking lock these politically correct chief constables up for racial discrimination

Leeds

I really do love the opening lyric. It really does remind me of some particularly odious scumbags...

it's probably a myth... like he who should fuck off's facts

Maybe he is married, it doesn't change the facts. Little Steve, your bitterness drips all over the page, your childish indignation screams out. It's as if they're your roads, your police, your jobs, your train station. You want to spew your bile, throw tantrums like an uncontrollable child. Piss on my matches, you can't even spark the tiniest flame.

this is great... it's like anyone can say anything about leeds-steve yet he'll only retaliate to a woman who funnily enough lives thousands of miles away from him.

but it's ok, he's married to a black woman... so he needn't be careful about what he says. and as we all know, having mixed race children means your opinion is right.

Babs your wrong yet again, not a first for you mind, i said jack shit about train stations, you find where i did love and you win...But you wont i know for a fact.

Oh and of course id realy make up the fact im married. How sad of you lot, when your pissed on you resort to he must be making it up.

I may even get my wife on here to tell you lot how patronising she feels you lovely white people are to her race.

i'm sure she'd be very saddened,
especially if she mis-reads everyones posts

Political correctness from the Right.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dek...metsticker.html

From the article...

Driver fights ticket for bumper sticker

It was 9:30 on a recent Friday night when Denise Grier saw blue lights in her rearview mirror.

She pulled over on Chamblee-Tucker Road, unaware of her infraction.

"The officer asked if I knew I had a lewd decal on my car and I thought, 'Oh gosh, what did my kids put on my car?' "

As it turns out, the decal was an anti-Bush bumper sticker Grier slapped on her 2001 Chrysler Sebring last summer. The bumper sticker — "I'm Tired Of All The BUSH—" — contains an expletive.

The officer "said DeKalb had an ordinance about lewd decals and wrote me a ticket" for $100, said Grier, an oncology nurse at Emory University Hospital who lives in Athens.

My comment...

A ticket for a bumper sticker. Political correctness sure is stupid.

Zeig Heil

More political correctness stupidity . . .

Kicked Out of the Hannity 'Freedom Concert'

I guess this political correctness and morality fascism is one of the reasons I joined here.

I know some of my views may anger people here, and whether they are right or wrong my views are my truth. Many of you honestly hold your views the same too. However, what I do not like is when one groups forces another to conform to its will, and the worst examples of that is when a widely accepted cultural practice is condemned and legislated for by government for politically correct reasons.

Often these reasons are based on the worst form of self righteous cultural prejudice, such as the seal hunt with the Inuit/ fur industry with arctic people, or banning foxhunting and smoking in the UK.

Now I have posted heavily about my thoughts on the first two, but how do I explain my position on smoking?

Well the problem is there are 13 million smokers. There are about double that if you count occassional smokers, but lets say the smoking ban will affect 15 million as a conservative estimate. I would first argue smokers have their own culture. A set of manners, etiquette, shared beliefs, observations and rituals. Smoking is massively important to you if you are a smoker.
So how come a law can be passed totally ignoring the rights of people because in the value system of the middle class, smoking is deemed unhealthy. It undoubtedly is, but why is it that far far fewer middle class people smoke than either working class or upper class? You can compare that to many many cultural phenomena actually. Why is it only working class and upper class people are into racing, fishing, hunting, coursing, or read Kipling instead of Orwell, like pornography, drink lager not wine, and have fun today and think of the consequences tomorrow, have a shared amorality when it comes to many issues, and "call a spade a spade".
Now before you go accusing me of racism I have to tell that I am only using that as an example. I know a lot of people you would see as landowning gentry and I have never found any differences culturally apart from accent. I certainly haven't witnessed any institutional racism at all. Horse racing for example has a huge number of ethnic minorities working in it and a different perspective from another culture is always eagerly respected and recieved. There are Bangladeshis, Gypsies,Mauritians, Poles, Czechs, Russians, Ukranians, Argies, and even some native peoples working in racing. I mean thousands altogether. The wages are good now but there is a shortage of horse skills becusae this government understimated the importance of racing as an indutsry and has not prepared a teaching staff to teach riding as a career move...with a rapidly expanding industry that now employs more than the Mining and steel industries puit together that was a huge mistake. So we NEED foreign workers and grateful to have them. Racism is not an issue at all in racing...it cannot be with the Maktoums as the main employers and sponsors. So there is certainly no anti Arab sentiment. On the contrary. The Arab horse with bloodlines going back hundreds of years, and the base blood of the thoroughbred, is revered. Most horsemen/women can quote you the parts of the Koran on horses. Certainli everyone with an Arab horse.

So why the hell do the police need positive discrimination? Why don't they just work on getting public confidence back so that people fo any colour want to join? I wouldn't have anything to do with them so its no different to the black community.

Anyway back to smoking. The fact that working class and upper class people do not give a toss about the health risks is because they have an immediate gratification culture. Probably because of celtic/norman roots. Saxon culture tends to be deferred gratification culture, civilise and plan they got rid of feudalism for goodness sake until the normans and celts knocked some sense into them . English urban middle class do not know what "the craic" means and it is pathetic watching them pretend they do. We have a caution to the wind culture in which fun and kicks are everything. If you drink guiness it'll be ten pints.Whether its bombing down the Cresta run, riding a gypsy pony that has wandered onto a council estate bareback when you are seven, losing your virginity at thirteen, eating junk food , starting to smoke at ten years old , when you can quote every line of Kiplings Ballad of East and west cos you know it gets up pc teachers noses, motorcycles and fast sporty cars, fast sporty women, the book "Elegance" is in you mums drawer (Dariaux)suspenders and stilletoes, wild parties, bling jewellery and lively politically incorrect music from Sham 69 and PWEI to NWA and Lil Kim and Eminem, books like Clarissa and the countryman,authors like Anne rice, films like Reign of fire and Nightwatch or starship troopers ,an Arnie Schwartz movie and artists like Vetrianno , going hunting shooting or fishing or gambling ,bunking off school and not going to college.... the list is endless. Generally live for today sort of a vibe.

How does middle class culture differ? Dinner parties and wine, planning for the future , book education over learning through experience,shite cars , bicycles (!) instead of horses, women with no make up and flat shoes and short hair, and something to say about immoral practices of just about every culture in the world from female circumcision to seal hunting to passive smoking to buying fair trade goods to halal meat ; and wearing rucksacks and having an anorak instead of a covert coat and wearing arty spectacles to make you look more intelligent. And sports like badminton (!) and cycling. Its a culture where beautiful design like Porsche/ferrari and Gucci/Dior are considered vulgar but disreet expensive designer kitchens and PEPS and ethical investments and trendy cuisine at absurd prices are all okay. Graduate means something other than wanker and the Telegraph or Sun reader is seen as a heretic and books like American Psycho, authors like William Burroughs (!) artists like tracey emin and films like billy elliott or betty blue or three colurs red. Men have purses and women(and men) decry porn. Roulette wheels and the Grand national get a nose turned up etc etc. As for music...well you people cant dance as Alexi Sayle used to say. Billy Bragg once accused me of being unfair on handicapped people at a gig once because we were slamming. I don't know when I took that crap when I raise a large (£30 000 this year) amount of money each year for the Spinal Injuries Association but he embarrased us from the stage and the microphone to me is now a symbol of oppression and moral superiority.

now okay I am presenting some extreme stereotypes there to demonstrate the differences between the middle class urban petit bourgeois and the rest of us. But just for a bit of fun see which group you most strongly identify with.
Nothin wrong with either really, but there is a difference. But much of our cultures are now deemed POLITICALLY INCORRECT. The middle class AR leaning LEFT are telling us how we should think feel act and play. Sorry but thats crap.
Its California uber Alles and zen fascism is opressing us. And the left has let it happen. Embraced it. Screwed the working class by seeing his whole culture as morally wrong.

Well I didn't vote Labour for that . I voted (reluctantly when I heard things can only get better ...that nearly put me off) for the Railways to be re nationalised, more doctors and no privatisation in the health service, and a good comprehensive education which I was grateful to have recieved...I actually believe in traditional Academic education for all instead of just the middle class get that free, posh people have to pay, and poor people have to do VOCATIONAL F***ING EDUCATION. And no more f***ing wars. Didn't get any of it.

And what did I get? Discrimination against everything that I stand for through a load of political correctness and targetted indirect taxation and animal rights bollox. And what is more my Bangladeshi mates feel pretty much the same way. Especially about all the indirect taxation and the spectre of a ban on halal meat and burkas, and ID cards and allowing the Police to put seven gunshots in an innocent Brazilian kids head.

Anyway. I don'y give a damn that smoking is bad for me. I like it and sod the consequences. A bit like rding horses or fast cars. If you do not like it go to a non smoking pub or retaurant and let individual establishments decide. Its a difficult concept I know. Its called LIBERTY and TOLERANCE.

Libby, there's more to the smoking bans than personal liberty. It's a public health issue. It costs ALL OF US more to care for people with smoking-related illnesses. And those of us who hate smoking are saying that we don't want to have to pay more to deal with the consequences of other people's addictions. I certainly wouldn't mind going to special non-smoking bars or restaurants, but that's not really what's at the heart of it. The ban is aimed, ultimately, at encouraging people to stop smoking because the consequences of it are costing the public health system too much.


Fuck, I'd rather ride a horse than a bicycle, but the local council doesn't allow livestock in my neighborhood! Though there is a small childrens' farm down the road, and they have ponies - maybe they'd let me board a horse there! Hmmmm...


Uh-huh. Here are your own words back at you, then: What women wear or don't is matter of personal choice. And we've fought long and hard for the right to exercise that choice.


How anyone, of any class or background can think there is ANYTHING defensible about female genital mutilation goes beyond my powers of imagination. What about the liberty and human dignity of the poor girls forced to undergo this torture?


To drag out a very old saying: beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Besides that, it could be argued that the brands you mention all have their golden ages behind them. They've produced classic, iconic stuff, but are they really that forward-thinking, in terms of design, anymore? Could it be that these companies are simply resting on their past reputations and that it's newer companies that are producing the classics of the future? Just an idea.

And another thing: you're clearly very angry about lots of things. And you seem really defensive about your life and your choices. You've decided to tar everyone else on this board with the same brush, as if we all fit neatly into your carefully nurtured prejudices. You're basically being as narrow-minded and intolerant as you're expecting us to be - and that's within minutes of joining this board!

And it's too bad, really, because I for one think you make some points that are worth considering and discussing. You've pointed out some things I hadn't thought of before.

But you're doing it in a way that's really annoying and offensive and is likely to make people very unwilling to engage in debate.

So do you actually want debate and an honest exchange of ideas? Or do you simply want to give vent to your very obvious anger and frustration?

If it's the former, perhaps you can find a less offensive and non-confrontational way to express your ideas; a way that will allow people to take you seriously and want to discuss these important issues. You may find that there are some people who agree with you on one thing or another. And you may even learn something.

If it's the latter, please take it elsewhere. We've seen your kind before, too many times, and none of us has the patience anymore.

But what happens when this is obviously bad and wrong?

I'll turn to smoking in a second but I wonder how you feel about female gental mutilation or the practice of binding feet? Should girls and women really be forced to suffer simply because there is a cultural and traditional practice that men, it's mostly men, insist be fiollowed.
Oh, and before you point out that lots of women in the countires where it's practised, support circumcision, it's important to realise that this is almost always down to the simple fact that it is about the only way in which women in deeply patriarchal societies can have any say in or control over how their lives are run. Strip away this and they are left with nothing.

As for smoking. Go right ahead. Smoke your head off if you want to. Enjoy your inability to taste good beer and food. Revel in the inability of your lungs to fully inflate and your body's inability to send enough oxygen to your brain. It IS your body, you CAN do what you like with it.

BUT!

Don't do it near me. Don't tell me you have a RIGHT to make the air near me smell foul. Don't tell me you have a RIGHT to put a polutant proven to be carcenogenic and habit forming into the atmosphere in such close proximity to me that I have to stop doing what I want to do, like watch a movie, eat a meal or attend a meeting simply in order to maintain good health. You do NOT have a RIGHT to make me ill.

And why does everybody else HAVE to live with the aftermath of your habit? Why do ashtrays and buckets of sand filled with the tar & saliva soaked remnants of your compulsion have to be provided everywhere? Perhaps because the majority of us would otherwise have to pick our way through the veritable carpet of butts.

I know smokers who are at least apologetic about their need and craving. I have some sympathy since it was revealed long ago that cigaretes are a complex amalgum of tobacco and chemical additives designed to work within the brain specifically to create a dependancy. However I have NO sympathy for smokers who complain that their rights and freedoms are being infringed by anto smoking legislation since by their own actions they demonstrate a complete and total lack of care and consideration for the rights and freedoms of anybody but themselves.

The day you, when asked by a non smoker, put out your ciggy without a single murmur of contempt or disapproval and follow up with an immediate apology will be the day I might consider, just consider, thinking about how smokers might be accomodated in a predominantly non smoking society.

Hi Tanya and Martyn again. I think you have misunderstood my points.

I wasnt for example saying that one prefernce is better than another. that is my point. I tried to do it in a humorous way but for some reason (maybe because you are on the defensive aswell) you have interprted it as anger. Nope; I have no problem with women with short hair and no make up, just don't fancy them. But I certainly do NOT look down on them as human beings ...it is only when my very glamorous and intelligent girlfriend gets criticised for being like a hooker, or a bimbo, or a cruel bitch for wearing fur that it gets on my nerves. I do not go up to women in polyester and short hair and scruffy jeans and scream at them. And actually I totally believe ANYBODY should be able to have their own style without criticsm from others. I was just exagerating a stereotype as an intentionally humorous example.
think of it this way:
mrs Prescott or Ruth Kelly? That will tell you what class you are! (joking! but def the former for me!)
or if you are a girl:
Micheal Portillo or Tony Blair? I think Diane Abbott has made up her mind on that one and that makes her sound to me!

I certainly didnt come here to abuse or criticise anyone; but yes I do get passionate about rural issues. I keep my mouth shut about Barking and Dagenham car works (if there are any left) because I do not know anything about them...so I would listen to informed opinion and just wish someone had listened to us because the Hunt bill is a travesty.

So sorry if I come over as aggressive...I do not mean to be and did read many posts before I started posting so I know there are many many views and shades represented here. Just didnt see mine.

And as Billy Bragg was an important part of my youth and I got dissillusioned with the left I thought my perspective would be ...different. Doesn't mean I am right and just trying to provoke debate that's all.

They don't allow you to ride horses where you are? That's an outrage. There will be a riding school not far from wherever you are. to me it is a fundamental human right to be able to ride. certainly makes you undertand animals in a way you could only imagine if you dont. I am sure the riders here will back me up on that at least. you cannot force a horse to do anything it doesnt agree with.

Now on female genitalia mutilation I put that in for a hook; good bait huh? I was not defending it; just attacking out moral right to attack it. there is a difference. Did anybody see the "Tribe"programme about the
Dassenech last night with Bruce Parry? he admitted for the first time ever he had difficulty accepting a ritual practice. yet everything else abou their culture, even the crocodile hunters who support the whole tribe because the drought has wiped out the cattle and crops, he warmly praised. They have doen that fro thousands of years and there are still plenty of crocs. But the circumcision...he had problems with it. While he ummed and arrd, I listened and heard the wome speak about it. they certainly do not sound opressed by men. they have a strong role in the society. they all seemed to heartily approve; its all they know. However yes it is abhorrent to us. So where do we draw the line? Who are we to say we are right and they wrong? At least their way of life isnt detroying the planet. I do not know the answer...maybe someone can tell me.
Waht is for an absolute certainty howver is that only Bruce parry can give us an intelligent reponse, and the tribe themselves. We must learn and try to understand before we condemn people baed on our moral code.

Smoking. Smoking dies not cost the NHS a penny. It is a revenue earner. Check out the government own figures.
Revenue from tobacco: £9.6 billion
Cost of smoking related disease to the NHS: £3.8 billion.

A profit of considerable billions. In addition, if we take into account smokers alegedly die some 5 to 8 years prematurely, then you do not have the cost of keeping us in our old age, or the cost of alzheimers (smokers dont get it). Ther is a website devoted to the fact that smokers make/save the government a fortune. It is independent and purely figure based. We are far far more contributing and less draining citizens than non smokers. I am not making this up. Go and look at the figures.
you cannot have it both ways. Eithrr we die earlier and save the stae the cost of looking after us when we are old, or we don't. Waht is absoultely certain is everybidy dies, and only a tiny proprtion of people who smoke die more than non smokers of the same diseases. In addition many dieases termed smoking related...such as cervical, stomach etc have had to be removed from The AMA list..and will soonhave to be in the UK. These cancers have in the last decade been found out to be virus related. You cannot catch viruses by smoking. Research is currently being done on the role of viruses in lung cancer; and doctors and the government are not going to like the results.
If you want references I can provide them and they are all scientific so are heavy reading if you arent medical trained. And tell me why they refuse to cure the millions of people suffering from helicobactor pylori while your at it when you search stomach cancer/ulcer to check, if they are so concerned about public health. the cure is an anto biotic which costs £2....anybody had a family member die of stomach ulcer or cancer? Ask yourselves why they didnt prescribe the AB when they mained about upset tummies all their life and spent thousands of pounds on symptom alleviators.

See we aint going to swallow paying all that tax if smoking is found out to be not as bad for you as previously thought.

Ash is a cleanser not a pollutant. Chuck it all on a bub carpet then vacuum and it soaks up all your spilled smelly drinks. I agree that you should not have to put up with it...you would not find a smoker who would dsgaree there should be segregated areas, even smoking rooms where people do not have to work in it...no proble. But that is not what is coming. It is a complete intolerance...and that is never right to me. The only scientists that have come up with proof of passive smoking being bad for your kealth is thise paid to find that out. plenty of neutral studies showing very very minimal risk. When I saw the debate in the special Parlimantary committe and I saw a doctor telling mps that passive smoking was worse than fumes from a car exhaust and noy ONE of them questioned that i could not beleive it. Try sitting in a car for twenty four hours with four people smoking. You would have pretty runny eys and a bit of a cough but that is all. Try 24 minutes with a piece of rubber hose to the car exhaust. Get the picture?

See you say a predominately non smoking society as if you have the right to ban me and others just vecause we are the minority. that will make democracy collapse if you persevere with that. If I am a publican and I want to have a smoking area a non smoker has no right to come in and impoise his will on them . That is fascism. People who samoke generally do NOT smoke in non smoking areas and for years have observed that .
Anyway...it will be like Ireland. Smirting will rule outside where the craic is and you saddos (joking) will all be on your own inside!

So smokers unite !!!

Avtually I do not even smoke in my own house if I have a non smoker around; that is manners unless they realy do not object. I always say "do you mind if I smoke" sometimes they say "yes I do" (in my house! Jehovahs witnesses are the best for that) but I respect that and go outside for one. But you risk losing all that etiquette if you legislate for it. You get militancy then. and huge increase in people smoking as in Ireland ....hmmmm...call me cynical...doesnt that mean more tax?


hope that answered your concerns and realise that I am not at all aggressive when you get to know me! I just like to question...hard and fast and fun.....but a bit long sometomes...sorry bout that too.
Or anti women with short hair or pro female circumcision. I am the least sexist person you could meet. have lots of lesbian friends actually as they like my girlfriend I think as do our gay frinds. She is like a diva to them or something I think. Oh dear...now you will think I think that all women with short hair are lesbians. I don't...just using two friends as an example of how I don't think any less of people because I don't fancy them.

best regards to you both and thankyou for some interesting debate points. At least you didn't call me "twat" which was my first reponse here! I am not a bigot either. I can change my mind the moment I am given a real good argument, and always go awat conidering most view points and I hope you guys do too. I think you do as you ave read my stuff rather than dismising it out of hand as "tory" or another stupid label.

I am certainly not anti left wing. Just would like it to be a bit more respectful of working class and cultural diversity thats all. We need a strong left wing not one that is in Tony Blairs pocket and pops up now and again and says "what about banning hunting?" And we need a fundamental Tory valuing of liberty...they should be screaming against ID cards every man jack of em.


all the best LLTP xx and sorry for my abrasive style..thats just me but I am quite sweet really honest...as long as you don't opress me by forcing my girlfriend into dungarees for her liberation! Sorry..see? I cant help myself but I dont mean it really.

Ah, OK. I myself have rubbed people the wrong way in Internet exchanges because I was trying to be funny and apparently failed to get that across. It doesn't always translate into the written word, especially if you're unfamiliar with someone's style. So, glad we got that cleared up!

As for riding in my neighborhood, I'm sure that would be OK - you just can't keep livestock within city limits. So cycling's the next best thing for me, I guess! An American who started a "horse taxi" service in my neighborhood with two retired trotters got special permission, but only for a year. He was keeping his mares around the corner from me, and some idiot wrote "animal torturer" on his sign. Clearly someone who simply jumped to conclusions.

And I like your thinking that riding is a fundamental human right! I don't get to spend as much time with horses as I'd like, but I always find it rewarding. They're great teachers, aren't they?

One thing that really bothers me about the animal rights fanatics is their refusal to accept that humans benefit in more than just financial ways from having contact with animals. Horses, for instance, are used to great effect for physical and psychological therapy. Autistic children respond well to them. I once saw a really moving TV feature about a project in a US prison where hardened felons (serious crime like murder and rape) worked with horses in need of rehab. Dealing with traumatized, emotionally scarred animals gave them a respect for others' fragility they didn't used to have. Plus it gave them self-confidence as well as marketable skills. One guy, who'd been very violent, showed a big ugly scar on his stomach where the horse he was working with had bit him and ripped his flesh. But after he recovered physically, he continued working with this horse, and they eventually found a basis for constructive cooperation. And he was clearly very proud of having perservered with this animal and helping the horse deal with his own anger issues!

I think sometimes the radical animal rights people forget that humans are part of nature too. We need to have contact with nature and animals for our sanity and well-being. The trick, I think, is to find a way to get what we need while also respecting the animals' needs. I have faith it can be done. Every person who lives in harmony with a domestic animal is proof that it can be done.

Let's not confuse rights with political correctness.

However, personally, I don't see anything wrong with political correctness. Someone who claims "Baa Baa Black Sheep" is racist may be a little scared or mad but that does not deny that we have to be careful about the language we use in our lives. Think of the implications of using words like 'wog' or 'fuzzy-wuzzy.' Of course there needs to be some 'political correctness' and of course there needs to be some attempt to democratise our societies. We should not stand by and watch while our police force does not contain the an ethnic mix which is similar to that in the rest of society. We should not tolerate the glass ceiling that exists in our society. In short, we should not allow there to be any discrimination in our society. That means that we need to watch out for what we say and do.

Now, of course, that is easier said than done. Ilyenkov, a Soviet philosopher, suggested that every one of us is a "living contradiction" in that we may hold certain values but fail to live them out in our lives. For example, I may hold the view that dialogue is vital to the functioning of society but fail to listen to an Israeli point of view. Thus, I am a "living contradiction" in holding two contradictory points of view at the same time. THAT is the problem with democracy, not political correctness.

I'm not saying this is proof of political correctness, just asking is it - in any of these three cases involving Boris Johnson? Boris apology to Papua New Guinea. So he dissed a far away country that we don't know much about (like Kazakhstan maybe ). Can you still say 'from here to Timbuktu?'
I'm not saying that he's not a tory prat btw.

He also had to go and apologise to the people of Liverpool, and more recently he was at the centre of a (minor) storm at the Tory conference for slagging off Jamie Oliver, (although this was acknowleged as a bit of a lark).
Maybe what he said about Liverpool was a bit tasteless, but fair comment.

Also, even though I don't care that much for Ken Livingstone, it was right for him to get off from this stupid charge, for using some unwise words to that Evening Standard reporter.

I have to say that the Borat stuff leaves me a bit uneasy; if you translated it to a country that was less remote, I suspect that many people would find it racist.
However, the comedy that really worries me is "Little Britain": it seems to me to come very close to laughing "at" people with a variety of disabilities. Though I don't laugh at it, because I don't find it funny anyway....

I have to say that the Borat stuff leaves me a bit uneasy; if you translated it to a country that was less remote, I suspect that many people would find it racist.
However, the comedy that really worries me is "Little Britain": it seems to me to come very close to laughing "at" people with a variety of disabilities. Though I don't laugh at it, because I don't find it funny anyway....
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Little Britain is ugly bigoted stuff; two public school boys laughing at white working class people, unlike the Catherine Tate show which is someone who has lived that life and entertaining from her past.

As the nan character might say "Little Britain; what a fucking liberty"

I was talking about not this 'person.' (And I have also said before that the 'joke ' seems to be on peasant culture. That looks like a real village, in Romania maybe.)

Glad that it's not just me that feels that way.... it's the material that involves the incontinent woman that I found most offensive, though, as I said, I don't find it funny, so I have barely watched it.
Agree about Catherine Tate: I think that there is some genuine affection for the characters she portrays. And the same applies to Peter Kay, who I think draws fantastically funny material from within his own experience without ever laughing "at" the people around him.

Lou and Andy make my blood boil, portraying people as benefit cheats and belittling the work that carers do.

My mum cared for bed ridden nan for over 10 years, she was a saint IMHO but still the nan character again is a mixture of my mum and nan and as such takes me back in time to when I was a kid in the east end.

Vicky Pollard is clever but the difference in her and the Lauren character is that as you say Catherine Tate has a warmth for her characters.

All of these people like Ctate and lucas/walliams are talented - but there seems to be a real heartless nastiness around in brit comedy at the moment. I include the office and extras (although again I think Gervais is a big talent as a comic performer - theres a lack of empathy to his comedy.) - even the people I was meant to like in the office like Tim and Dawn annoyed the shit out of me.

Martin Freeman (tim) comes over as a right smug prat.