I just can't read a newspaper these days. This can be a thread where we can post whichever political story of the day is driving us crazy, amazing us or shocking us.

I'll start off with this one, and the question: when did racism come back in style? I've been reading so much racist garbage in the papers since the New Orleans hurricane I feel like I've gone back in time. Did the 1990s actually happen, or did we all just dream them? This was in today's Washington Post. Obviously William Bennett has always been a dick, but since when can prominent people get away with outright racism?


Bennett Under Fire for Remark on Crime and Black Abortions
By Brian Faler
Special to The Washington Post
Friday, September 30, 2005; Page A05

Democratic lawmakers and civil rights leaders denounced conservative commentator William J. Bennett yesterday for suggesting on his syndicated radio show that aborting black children would reduce the U.S. crime rate.

The former U.S. education secretary-turned-talk show host said Wednesday that "if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down." Bennett quickly added that such an idea would be "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do." But, he said, "your crime rate would go down."

Bennett's comments, flagged by the liberal news media watchdog group Media Matters for America, were quickly condemned by Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.), who issued a statement demanding that Bennett apologize. Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) circulated a letter, signed by 10 of his colleagues, demanding that the Salem Radio Network suspend Bennett's show.

Wade Henderson, the executive director of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, demanded that the show be canceled.

"Bennett's statement is outrageous. As a former secretary of education, he should know better," Henderson said. "His program should be pulled from the air."

A spokeswoman for Salem Radio Network did not return three calls requesting comment.

Bennett, education secretary under then-President Ronald Reagan and director of drug policy during George H.W. Bush's administration has written a number of books stressing the importance of traditional values, including the 1993 bestseller "The Book of Virtues."

In 2003, he admitted he was a heavy gambler after news reports that he had lost millions of dollars in casinos.

Bennett's comments came Wednesday, during a discussion on his talk show "Morning in America." A caller had suggested that Social Security would be better funded if abortion had not been legalized in 1973 because the nation would have more workers paying into the system.

Bennett said "maybe," before referring to a book he said argued that the legalization of abortion is one of the reasons the crime rate has declined in recent decades. Bennett said he did not agree with that thesis.

"But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down," Bennett said, according to an audio clip posted on Media Matters for America's Web site. "That would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, you know, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky."

i'm sorry i need to pick my jaw up off the floor before i rant at that one.

holy shit!!! give that man a roll of nickels and haul his ass back to vegas!

It's a full time job cataloguing the outrages of these racist, hateful, fascist pieces of shit.

Even more outrageous was listening to a conservative African-American defending Bill Bennett just now. Have I missed something?

I wonder if he is going to be 'hauled across the coals' for these comment?

/Sarcasm ON

A better solution would be, surely, to ban all sex between people. No kids = no crime. D'OH! Adults do crime to. So do a Logans Run and kill all people over a certain age. D'OH! Youngsters do crime. So kill all people under the age of Logans Run type.

Sorted, in essence, kill everyone. No Crime and your police crime rate cleanups look great!


/Sarcasm OFF

It really makes me think why I am bringing my kids up. If this is the atitude of so called 'learned men'

Unfuckingbelieveable.

U.S. BARS ROBERT FISK FROM ENTERING COUNTRY

by Doug Ireland
September 23, 2005
DIRELAND


The internationally renowned correspodent for The Independent <http://www.independent.co.uk/> -- the great British journalist Robert Fisk -- has been banned from entering the United States. Fisk has been covering war zones for decades, but is above all known for his incisive reporting from the Middle East for more than 20 years. His critical coverage of the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq, and the continuing occupation that has followed it, has repeatedly exposed U.S. and British government disinformation campaigns. He also has exposed how the bulk of the press reports from Iraq have been "hotel journalism" -- a phrase Fisk coined.

The daily New Mexican reports <http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/32812.html> that "U.S. immigration officials refused Tuesday to allow Robert Fisk, longtime Middle East correspondent for the London newspaper, The Independent, to board a plane from Toronto to Denver. Fisk was on his way to Santa Fe for a sold-out appearance in the Lannan Foundation <http://www.lannan.org/> 's readings-and-conversations series Wednesday night. According to Christie Mazuera Davis, a Lannan program officer, Fisk was told that his papers were not in order. Davis made last-minute arrangements Wednesday for Amy Goodman, host of Pacifica Radio's daily news show, Democracy Now!, <http://www.democracynow.org/> to interview Fisk via satellite from a television station in Toronto..." A recording of this satellite interview will soon be available on the Lannan Foundation's website. <http://www.lannan.org/>

I have long admired Fisk's unbeatably first-rate journalism, his intrepid insistence on sticking his nose where the authorities -- of whatever country he's in -- don't want him to go. He constantly shows up the sluggish cowardice and indolent hand-out journalism practiced by so many U.S. foreign correspondents from the safety of their hotel bars. That the U.S. won't allow this great journalist into this country to tell what he has seen and what he knows is a scandal.

If you're not familiar with Fisk's reporting, there is an entire website devoted to it -- read Fisk's latest, and find an archive of his articles (plus audio-visual materials) by clicking here. <http://www.robert-fisk.com/> You can also order Fisk's books, like Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560254424/qid=1127441206/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-3517082-6962250?v=glance&amp;s=books> , and The Great War for Civilization: The Conquest of the Middle East. <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400041511/qid=1127441206/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-3517082-6962250?v=glance&amp;s=books>

If they let Harold Pinter in (and they do), then they have to let Fisk in. They're two peas in the pissed-off pod.

I wonder if it was just that he didn't have the right visa? Visa rules these days are as confusing as tax laws.

No writer on earth would be more delighted than Fisk to be on a US blacklist. All his Christmases would have come at once.

Censorship is the last refuge of a cowardly administration ...

which leads nicely to this

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/06/news/fortu..._shirt/?cnn=yes


for fuck sake!!!!


don't forget to watch the video...

... bloddy 'eck ...

Incredible!

then ladies and gentlemen,,, WTF???


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051006/ap_on_...munism_memorial

Sorry, but I think this woman is in the wrong. And I think she deliberately flaunted the shirt.

Call it a subtle difference, but if she was wearing a shirt saying "Meet The F*ckers" (as on John Stewart's Daily Show the other week), then I don't think this would have happened - Republicans on the plane might have taken offence at the insult to their heroes, but it would be within the realm of political give and take. But, whatever the freedom of speech implications, I do not disagree with people taking objection to a public display of the word "Fuck" on a shirt.

I would be outraged if someone on a flight I was on was wearing a shirt with "Fuck Hillary Clinton" on it. I would be outraged if somebody was loudly and repeatedly using the word "fuck" on my flight, even if in harmless conversation. It's all about expected standards of public behaviour.

Keri - what would happen if you came to work wearing that "Meet The Fuckers" shirt?

Yep, it's very disrespectful ...

... it should say 'Fuck Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton' to keep within the common boundaries of decency and respect for someone's proper name and title ...

Keri - what would happen if you came to work wearing that "Meet The Fuckers" shirt?

depends on what i was doing that day to be honest. i bet it would be frowned upon if i was working the front desk but seeing i'm stuck in the middle of nowhere staring at the machine like a drone all day i guess, nothing would happen. do keep in mind where i work is a bit more lefty than your average corporate whore jobs of heels and suits.

but then she was wearing it while traveling, not in her work enviroment. but like the article says, people can complain over your reading material on a plane? give me a fucking break, shall i get you some matches to start burning books again?

i've also read that wearing shirts with unpleasant words about tony blair and get you the same reaction in britain... so what i want to know is where does my freedom end and yours begin?

so what if i get a shirt with the letters FUGWB written on the front? it doesn't really spell anything, but people get the point... should i get thrown off the plane?

and btw i take offence to yankees sucks t-shirts and they should be banned from yankee stadium too! so there!

Don't get me wrong, I am only acknowledging that I think it reasonable to object to the use of an obscenity like "fuck" in a public place. I don't know where you draw the line, but I know that that is beyond it.

Should you be limited in what you can read on an airplane? What if you found yourself sitting next to some fat, sweaty old git slobbering away over a hardcore porno mag? What if he is wearing an amusing t-shirt saying "Suck My Cock"?

Alberr - what about a T-shirt saying "Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Is A Cunt"?

Standards of obscenity and acceptable public behaviour change with times and locations, but I really think we all know when something is clearly over a certain line.

if he's keeping to himself and not making any lude comments directed in my direction... porn away fat git. and personally i don't care what people wear on their t-shirts... it's freedom of expression.

now any fucker reading some trash by ann coulter, that's a different story all together

you may have found the dear old language thread started up a few months ago when an member of this community tried to censor posters language. it might be worth while having a poke around there.

but as far as the shirt was concerned she wasn't hurting anyone, and i bet she wasn't ranting and raving about the "fuckers" would it have been okay if it was written like "f*ckers"? i bet they still would have kicked her off the plane. the truth is, it's becoming increasingly difficult to speak out about the current administration. and that i find that more insulting and worrying than some swear words on a tshirt.

I agree ...


As I recall ... you asked me for a loan of it ...


I would be most uncomfortable and would probably object to it ... unless her husband was wearing it ...


Yeeeeaah ... but the line is drawn in a different place by different people. As an old git I find any display of offensive words or sexual innuendo on tee shirts unacceptable in public. It used to be cowboy hats with 'kiss me quick' on the front. Now it is 'a slow screw up against the wall'. I don't find it amusing ... just cretinous. But I am generations away from the people who wear these things ... things have changed.

If there wasn't a political undertone to the behaviour of this airline I would probably shrug my shoulders and walk away but it does seem to be an important part of the scenario. And keri's last sentence covers that for me ... from what we can establish from so far away it does look as if censorship of criticism of Good ol' George and his adminstration is taking control of news media in the US.


Not yet keri, but watch this space, they take photos of our tee shirts here ...

You Europeans are so proper. You probably even know which one the salad fork is.

Do you remember the "Liquor up front, poker in the rear" t-shirts?

Now that I would have no objection to. The double-entendre is clever enough that it would go right over the head of my 8 year old (maybe even my 13 year old).

But what do I say to them when they see "Meet The Fuckers"?

Hence my personal standards of decency!

Bogues -

I'm getting real tired of agreeing with everything you say. When you're done with my brain, could you please give it back?

This debate is interesting. And I find myself stuck in several minds.

On the one hand there are undoubtedly t-shirts i'd be offended by, there are undoubtedly t-shirts that I'd not want kids to see - but I tend to think it's more important that no large institution can tell us what to where - what opinions to express....

How many of us laughed at the "only bush i'd trust" placard on the anti-war march a couple of years back - and I was happy to see young kids there - and as I recall the "innuendo" was hard to miss since it was graphically illustrated

I'd expect to be the subject of disciplinary proceedings if I wore my newly bid for t-shirt to work - but equally so if I wore one which expressed undying devotion to thatcherism (actually I'd expect to get sectioned then too....)

There are many standards of behaviour that we might say to children "ignore that" - but if they are old enough to read "fucker" then I think they are old enough to know it's a swear word, not big not clever and not a big deal.... I'd rather deal with it like that than let other people ban what we wear/say/read

Oddly enough on Monday night I was sitting next to a grim drunk bloke reading porn - and making a big effort to get the page at just the right angle for maximum enjoyment. I was uncomfortable and offended. I couldn't move without standing up for the 75 minute journey home and to be honest I was too intimidated to challenge him - he was drunk - and I thought that if I said something I was likely to get into a "what's your problem are you a lesbian" type rant for the entire journey... I've been thinking I should have said something ever since then - I'd be interested to know the experience of other women on the board - I must say that most of my girl-friends have acted like me when faced with similar and we're not a shy bunch! one even to the extent of putting up with sitting next to a bloke having a pretty obvious wank on the tube....

Sorry!

True ... we just love a fork in our salads ...

um - you don't have to apologise for all men

unless

Thats public transport for you.

It was the drink, your honour ...

in the circumstances I'd have thought.... [no cancel that thought!!!! ]

H'I was adjusting me apparel due to an unfortunate h'accident ocurring whilst taking advantage of the public h'ablutions prior to boarding the waggons-lit ... me lud ...

and would like seventy six other unfortunate h'accidents to be taken into consideration ...

[adjusts wig] I see, well that's entirely understandable, happens to me all the time, take a conditional discharge and a travel pass young man [/adjusts wig]

A praiseworthy judgment me lud ... you have restored me faith in British justice ... gawd bless you sir ... or madame ...

Madame??? that's just the tights - I'll have you know this is a proper justice system! no women on the bench round here

H'and raightly so sir ... h'if you don't mind me saying so ... they'll be wanting to go h'in the pulpit next ...
... that reminds me ... seventy seven h'accidents h'actually ...

When you see the fork in a salad... Take it!

*Faints yet again*

This thread is like deja vu all over again!

Actually, the thing on the t-shirt that I think is causing the difference, is that you might suspect that a similarly offensive t-shirt that wasn't attacking the Chief Executive might not get the same response. I don't know, I've never worn a t-shirt that says that on a demo - but...to skillfully join the posts back together, I was once told to cover up my Back to the Planet (remember them?) Whos fucking planet (complete with spelling mistake) t-shirt by a policeman on a demo. He was quite nice about it though.

this t shirt has been seen out and about .. and i have worn it to work.

talking about work (x threads ) i work at a tip and yesterday i went into the yard at lunchtime and as i passed the little office i could see the bloke in charge was sitting reading a magazine. Now it could have been the tv times and the page i could see was the advert for aristoc stockings ... but i called out rather than barged in to get his attention

have we done this one

Graham

You had a Back To The Planet t-shirt? Sounds like the copper had good music taste!

Though I confess I saw them play live once in my Uni college quad but I couldn't really avoid them, it was free and I was royally pissed. There, that's my excuse.

Just realised that I might find myself offensive ... my avatar is a tee shirt ...

i wonder if the bloke who owned that t shirt ever comes on here He was very nice.



all this reminds me of when we were in tolpuddle this year. (i have mentioned this elsewhere i know) The bloke on the door of robb and leon's session was wearing a rather risque t-shirt. That's a bit agressive i said it's a billy bragg t-shirt says he, official tolpuddle 2005. Oh says me. in which case it is lovely and where can i buy it

it is the only billybragg t shirt that doesn't have billy's name on it. Billy told me that when he was signing mine (and Alberr's .. i had to have 2, especially as they had them in sizes to fit trades unionists , thank you ethical threads )

it is based on this man and says 'dorset is so bracing'.

i don't think it is a billy t-shirt at all, although the depiction may bear a resemblance

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, or if it's already been mentioned before, but anyway it was a new one on me...

Reading the current TES today (yes I know it's sadly a New International rag, but it's the only informative paper covering teaching issues in depth in the UK), I came across this:

A teacher in a country school reported seeing a parent drive up in a huge SUV to school, drop off her kids, and then take out a can of spray-on mud, and start applying it to her vehicle for that 'rural cred' look.

I thought it had to be a wind-up, but no, a little research shows that it does indeed exist, and is marketed by a firm in Shropshire, England. See for example this link.

Comment, I believe, is superfluous.

pete: the story about it happening at the school gates may be an urban myth. (oops a bit of a pun there )

I suspect this is the real reason for the product :-

The company's website points out that it is illegal to use the spray to obscure a vehicle's number plate and did not condone it being used to avoid speed cameras.

"When you're spraying mud on your car, you can get it everywhere, but obscuring the number plate is not what this product is for," said Mr Dowse

we'll have to ask famous suv owners. nb and billy, what they think

having got points for speeding twice last year (both times on my way to braggy things) i could be sorely tempted to spray the number plate of my hire car (which doesn't rattle like my truck and it is sooo easy to cruise too fast) when we go down to cornwall (speed trap capital of the world) in december

and there is nothing wrong with TES ... since there was a picture of me in it a couple of years ago, advertising tolpuddle

You sound like KLF.

(I note this has been dealt with more seriously beforehand but couldn't resist the dig.)

I've obviously metamorphised into an old fogey!

I am as happy as anyone with earthy badinage liberally sprinkled with fuck, wank, cock, cunt, arse, bell-end and fannyflaps, but would be troubled by having my sadly literate children on a plane where some idiot thinks it's funny to wear a shirt with the word "Fuckers" on it.

Even in pub type environments, we all recognize (I thought...) the difference between a few good-natured "fucks" in conversation, and the loud drunk who sours the atmosphere with the same words.

To get right back to the original posting, the woman in question was obviously looking for conflict (IMHO).

i'm sure she got up that morning and thought "shit, i want to get kicked off my flight... this shirt will do?"

oh please...

My problem is not so much with the shirt -- I see that sort of thing all the time on the streets -- but with the airline for taking action after she had been allowed to fly one leg of her journey. What the f*ck?

oooh bogues .. i can't be doing with that last one