The West Wing, Political pornography for liberals Options

[DoubleJ]

It may be coming to a timely end, but for at least four seasons it was the best thing on TV.

By popular demand, this thread is a place to discuss the show, share your favourite quotes, or just indulge your sick fantasies about any number of cast members.

This post has been edited by DoubleJ: Jan 30 2006, 05:31 PM

[Fred E]

I've tried to watch it but I hate the way they talk, giving the impression that they're all so incredibly clever... Also, I find it irritating the way they present the President as this extremely clever guy and liberal having to make difficult decisions. Not to mention I find it very difficult to follow as they talk at such a speed that I just shut down.

So all in all I find its cosy, liberal smugness irritating in the extreme. Sorry. Just had to get it off my chest.

[keri]

gosh, those are all the things i love about it....

[Mata]

I've tried to watch it but I hate the way they talk, giving the impression that they're all so incredibly clever... Also, I find it irritating the way they present the President as this extremely clever guy and liberal having to make difficult decisions.  Not to mention I find it very difficult to follow as they talk at such a speed that I just shut down. 

So all in all I find its cosy, liberal smugness irritating in the extreme.  Sorry.  Just had to get it off my chest.

Ooh, controversial Fred! Why do you find it extremely irritating that the president is portrayed as extremely clever and liberal? Too far removed from reality, perhaps...?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Fred E]

I've tried to watch it but I hate the way they talk, giving the impression that they're all so incredibly clever... Also, I find it irritating the way they present the President as this extremely clever guy and liberal having to make difficult decisions.  Not to mention I find it very difficult to follow as they talk at such a speed that I just shut down. 

So all in all I find its cosy, liberal smugness irritating in the extreme.  Sorry.  Just had to get it off my chest.

Ooh, controversial Fred! Why do you find it extremely irritating that the president is portrayed as extremely clever and liberal? Too far removed from reality, perhaps...?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Yes.

All the heroic hollywood strings welling up underneath our young liberal heroes as they battle heroically to do the decent thing. It gets a little nuseating (sp?).

[DoubleJ]

But Fred! WE CAN DARE TO DREAM CAN'T WE?

*Weeps*

[itsmeBarbara]

Nauseating (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Having never seen it, I have to agree with you. I am not a fan of liberals, they always want to give you big humid hugs. Then lecture you.

[LeftintheUS]

Nauseating  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Having never seen it, I have to agree with you. I am not a fan of liberals, they always want to give you big humid hugs. Then lecture you.

Don't forget feeding you meatless meals and wearing patchouli, especially don't forget the patchouli, truly nauseating!!

[Fred E]

But Fred!  WE CAN DARE TO DREAM CAN'T WE?

*Weeps*

Not, I'm afraid, in the cold anarcho-marxist-syndicalist-trotskyist analysis lab that is Fredworld (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mata]

But Fred!  WE CAN DARE TO DREAM CAN'T WE?

*Weeps*

Not, I'm afraid, in the cold anarcho-marxist-syndicalist-trotskyist analysis lab that is Fredworld (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Pity.

*long pause*




ANYWAY, so we were talking about the best political drama every made, possibly the best television show in the world, and one that produced Josh Lyman, who Keri loves, and Jed Bartlet, who many of us would like to elect president.

Shall we continue?

Double J is very good at great West Wing lines, and I just found a website that has all the scripts, so let the worship begin!

My general theory is that the first four years were the best, with years 2 and 3 being arguably the best of the lot. Anybody particularly care for the post-Sorkin years? They just didn't do it for me.

[itsmeBarbara]

*liberals are very pouty when you make fun of their TV stories*


yes yes, carry on. BTW, is Boondocks on tonight?

[keri]

my addiction started late last year when a friend of mine told me she stayed up and watched an entire series while drinking wine and knitting an entire sweater. i figured i needed some discipline with my knitting and watched season 4. i watched a few out of order until i became hooked and then obsessed. since then i've borrowed em from a frien, started at season 1 and am now nearing the end of season 3.

i've heard it's goes to shit after sorkin leaves. i'm not upset it's been pulled, i think it's better to quit while you're ahead. i don't think i could love the next president as much as i love jed. what i'm really torn about is whether josh and donna get it on or not... part of me says yes they should and the other part says it's better left alone.

i think i never got into it before cause i just really don't like rob lowe-- but after watching the show... he was great and sorely missed after he leaves us with will bailey.

[Mata]

i think i never got into it before cause i just really don't like rob lowe-- but after watching the show... he was great and sorely missed after he leaves us with will bailey.

Precisely! It's not Rob Lowe we miss. He seems to be a bit of a dick. It's Sam Seaborne, who is wonderfully geeky and quite sweet.

I suppose his leaving could be seen as cleverness on Lowe's part. Sorkin left shortly after, and before you knew it, Toby and Josh were coming to blows, and Josh was shagging somebody in the West Wing -- both activities completely ignoring the characters involved.

I got into the West Wing reluctantly. I watched the pilot with the intention of making fun of it the next day to my friends. But it was really good. When I moved to England it was just about to start over here, and my friends here started watching it. One of the most memorable things any British person ever told me about their experiences watching the show, was my friend Sophie, who said she was watching an episode in Series 2 one night, and the dialogue was so powerful that when it stopped to go to a commercial break she felt moved to stand up and announce to her empty flat 'THAT was incredible!'

Which I have done many times. Sometimes in the first four seasons, I would just have to call a fellow fan during advert breaks to make sure he was watching.

Lord Jon Marbury, by the way, was said to be based on the real British ambassador to Washington. And the first two series closely followed the Clinton administration because DeeDee Myers was the primary consultant.

[barmyrob]

I'm sorry but the best political drama ever made was "Whoops Apolcalypse."

That or "The President's Brain is Missing" from Spitting Image

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[Mata]

So if we all agree it jumped the shark after Season 4, you still have a fairly complete series -- four years in a presidential administration as the characters progress from naive to increasingly cynical.

I particularly liked the character development on Bartlet, as you learn more about his family and his history, and find out that Mrs Landingham has been his friend for decades. Her death was extraordinarily shocking and led to that incredible episode with Bartlet in the church confronting god.

I came across this the other day:

May 12, 2001
Associated Press
Calif. Assembly Mourns TV Character

Assemblyman Kevin Shelley, San Francisco Democrat adjourned the California Assembly session Thursday in memory of Mrs. Landingham.

(The secretary, played by Kathryn Joosten, died in Wednesday night's episode when a drunken driver hit her car. Joosten, however, is alive and in good health, an NBC spokeswoman said.)

Before adjourning the session, a straight-faced Shelley called Mrs. Landingham a 'great American' whose 'contributions to the nation were too numerous to count.'

The announcement caught many legislators by surprise.

'At first everyone was stunned but then they were rolling in the aisles,' he said.

[Mata]

This was a great exchange between Bartlett and Mrs Landingham when she bought a new car but paid the full sticker price because she thought being a public employee meant that she could not negotiate.

Mrs Landingham:
"Oh, Sir. Surely you have better things to do than annoy me."

President Bartlet:
"Never. You bought a new car? . . . . And you paid sticker price?"

Mrs Landingham:
"Section 2635...."

President Bartlet:
"You need to look at the next page, Subsection B paragraph 4, Mammy Yokum."

Mrs Landingham:
"You know I could beat you up anytime I want, Sir."

President Bartlet:
"The Secret Service would have you down like a calf at a rodeo. The definition of gift excludes opportunities and benefits including favorable rates and commercial discounts available to the public at large."

Mrs Landingham:
"I did look at the next page. . . . I work next door to the Oval Office, Sir. Caesar's wife must be above reproach."

President Bartlet:
"Is the reason you didn't tell me you were getting a new car, you? Did you think I would think it was extravegance? You don't think I think you should have a new car? Delores, have you ever had a new car?"

Mrs Landingham:
"No. No, Henry would go to Calvin Hilly in Concord and Calvin would give him a good deal on something relible."

President Bartlet:
"How about you let me find out what you were suppose to pay and write you a check for the difference."

Mrs Landingham:
"Oh, no. Thank you, but I'm buying this car myself. This car is going to feel good."

President Bartlet:
"Is it a nice one?"

Mrs Landingham:
"It's a beauty. It's blue. It has air-conditioning. I told them I could just roll down the windows but it comes with it anyway. Consumer Reports rates it very high. It's very safe. And when you get inside, there's this . . ."

President Bartlet:
"Smell?"

Mrs Landingham:
"How did you know?"

President Bartlet:
"It's the smell of freedom. And the chemicals they treat the dashboard with. When are you picking it up?"

Mrs Landingham:
"Right now."

President Bartlet:
"Do me a favor, would you? Come back here after you pick it up, I'd like to talk to you about something. . . . And put the car in the driveway, I'd like to kick the tires."

[keri]

stop it you're gonna make me cry...

[Mata]

You can hear her voice when you read that dialogue. That actress was so perfectly cast.

I remember a few months after the episode where she died (driving the new car *sob*) I was in an airport in Houston... Ok, I was in the airport BAR, and there was a television and as I was drinking my valium-I-mean-pre-flight-martini, it was tuned to General Hospital, and I heard a familiar voice and THERE SHE WAS! Mrs Landingham! Alive as you please, and chiding somebody in the hospital corridor.

Honest to god, it almost made tears come to my eyes.

[Zippy]

Sorry, thought this was the Spin City forum...

This post has been edited by Zippy: Jan 31 2006, 03:58 PM

[DoubleJ]

MRS. LANDINGHAM
I'm going to lunch, Charlie.

CHARLIE YOUNG
Speaking of lunch, the president is not too wild about his.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
What's the nature of his dissatisfaction?

CHARLIE YOUNG
He says it is going to be made almost entirely out of vegetables.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Yes, it's a salad, Charlie.

CHARLIE YOUNG
The president would prefer a sandwich.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Charlie, tell the president he will eat his salad, and if he doesn't like it, he knows where he can put his salad.

[Lizzie]

The president's character is supposedly a graduate of some religious school in Indiana. The writers apparently don't realize that Notre Dame isn't exactly a liberal hotbed.

Nor a bed of anything, if you read their rule book.

I can't stay up late enough to see Boondocks.

[DoubleJ]

The president's character is supposedly a graduate of some religious school in Indiana.  The writers apparently don't realize that Notre Dame isn't exactly a liberal hotbed.

I think that's meant to be one of the remarkable things about the character; that he became so liberal despite coming from a very traditional background. In one episode, he reveals that he was going to become a Catholic priest until he met his wife.

FYI, BTW: Notre Dame has a small college in London, just round the corner from the National Gallery.

Nor a bed of anything, if you read their rule book.

LO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mata]

I think that's meant to be one of the remarkable things about the character; that he became so liberal despite coming from a very traditional background.  In one episode, he reveals that he was going to become a Catholic priest until he met his wife.

Yes, if I remember correctly, his family was very conservative as well. He studied philosophy and economics and it was his studies that ultimately convinced him not to follow the politics of his upbringing.

The complexity of his political and religious beliefs, and the difficulties this caused with his family -- that was one of the best things Sorkin did with the show.

That scene in the church where he argues with God in Latin has got to go down as one of the most incredible, heart-breaking performances (and scripts) ever in a TV series.

This post has been edited by Mata: Feb 1 2006, 10:59 AM

[Fred E]

The scripts posted here suggested to me that I should give it another try but the idea that the President has an argument with god in a church in Latin(!) does not do anything to counter claims that the series exudes a smug, self-satisfaction. I'll try to get hold of series one and see but the jury is still very much out...

[Mata]

From the same episode:


FADE TO: EXT. SCHOOL GROUNDS, NEW HAMPSHIRE, EARLY 1960s - DAY
It's a sunny afternoon. Young Jed Bartlet is hosing down several sculls. Young Mrs.
Landingham walks up beside him to catch his attention.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Jed.

Bartlet seems distracted, or perhaps he doesn't hear her. He continues his work.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Jed!

JED
[looks over, sees her, and smiles slightly] I'm trying to get through an honest
day's work, Mrs. Landingham.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
You missed a spot.

JED
I didn't miss it. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Okay.

JED
You have a habit of doing that, you know?

MRS. LANDINGHAM
What's that?

JED
Telling me I'm doing something wrong before I've had a chance to do it at all.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
[brightly] Well, that must be a little annoying.

JED
Yeah.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
I've got a project for you.

JED
Really.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
You can show the courage and the intellect and the leadership skills everyone talks about.

JED
I'm a little busy right now hosing down the boats.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
You know the women who work at this school are paid less money than the men?

JED
Sorry?

MRS. LANDINGHAM
The women are paid less money than the men.

JED
No, I didn't know that.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
You think your father does?