Respect, The Unity Coalition? Options

[Dickie]

I received some stuff in the post from this lot www.respectcoalition.org

There are too many familiar names from the SWP for my liking but can they be an alternative to New Labour?

Discuss.

[Beryl the Peril]

alberr and i will try to get along to one of the local events.

a lot of the names and faces are familiar. I would probably have gone to a May Day event if i had known about it.

I can't see it being an electoral success. Especially if they insist on shouting slogans through bloody loud hailers all the time!! why do the SWP (and it is mostly SWP as you say) do that ?? But i'm not knocking anybody fighting back and i'll vote for them.

[Dickie]

It's an established fact that the size of the megaphone directly reflects ones progress on the revolutionary ladder.

[the milkman]

I believe the 'Respect' party grew out of the anti-war movement, hence the involvement of people like George Galloway and Lindsey German.
When i first heard the idea suggested it was at an Anti-war demo and that a political party was being formed which would offer those disillusioned with new labour an alternative (presumably to voting lib dem)
Judging from the 'what we stand for' section of their manifesto, it would appear that they embody everything which a true labour party would represent.

Personally, i will still back Ken for Mayor as i think he has done a good job for london and had the balls to grab the transport problem by the neck and try something new. That said, i will probably be backing the 'respect' candidates for MEP and GLA positions as i really can't have anything to do with a so called labour party that contains people such as Blunkett, Hoon, Straw and Blair.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Really have no idea what i'm going to do if things haven't changed in new labour by the time we get a general election.. any ideas? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Dickie]

You're right they were born from the anti-war movement (Stop the War Coalition)

I think what’s interesting about them is it seems they have more than just the usual suspects signing up.

I'm dipping my toe in the water on this one just to get a feel of things. My main concern would be the SWP. Once they've recruited a few people they'll find a political excuse to abandon ship (Socialist Alliance anyone?)

On the positive side they'll be more enthusiasm for the European elections than there is in my CLP who can't find a volunteer (even a Blairite) to act as the election agent.

[Martyn]

Really have no idea what i'm going to do if things haven't changed in new labour by the time we get a general election.. any ideas?

None, sorry.

I have the exact same problem.

[Jon D]

My first reaction is that it's another SWP stalking horse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Fred E]

I really can't see it as a positive or viable alternative to New Labour, and it does look like it'll go the same way as the Socialist Alliance. And the name is crap and too indistinct.

[Dickie]

The name is undoubtedly rubbish - For me it conjures up images of Ali G.

Of course they couldn't use the word 'socialist' in the name because many of the signatories wouldn't describe themselves as that.

This post has been edited by Dickie: May 6 2004, 12:52 PM

[the milkman]

The only thing i like about the name is that it "does exactly what it says on the tin"
The myriad of different organisations which comprise the group and all the different people it is trying to encompass make it difficult to refer to it politically or in an ideological way.
I like the way the name is being used in the campaign to attract the disillusioned: "Respect - what new labour failed to give you."
The only other names i think they could have used maybe were "the Unity Coalition" or "Unity" but the first one sounds too much like "the coalition forces" i guess.

I have to say that one problem with being a fairly young (31) Billy Bragg fan and having not really been politically active during the bad old years of Thatcherism (although as a youngster i can certainly remember how crap things were under the tories) is not having a touchstone with the politics of the day.
What was so bad about the SWP? Why is everyone so worried that things will mutate into something like it?

Anyway.. Respect! to all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Alberr]

I've thought for some time of starting a new thread about "what will socialists do" in the forthcoming general election but this thread may be the place to have the debate.

I see chaos and despair in the (New) Labour Party and among many of our traditional working class supporters. Blair could well lose the election, something that was unbelieveable twelve months ago.

So, what are we going to do? What tune will Bill be playing? What are our options?

Bury our heads in the sand and ignore the democratic process?
Keep quiet and just vote for "New Labour" to keep the Tories out?
Vote Tory to keep New Labour out?
Support the Liberals to keep both the Tories and New Labour out?
Canvass for all the left wing opposition groups, including the splitters, to form an alliance with Respect and challenge New Labour?
Could we get one or two Respect MP's elected?

Like others here I have no idea what I am going to do.

For the first time since I got the right to vote, I am looking for an alternative to voting for the Labour party but I can't see anything on the horizon ...

[Dickie]

What was so bad about the SWP? Why is everyone so worried that things will mutate into something like it?

Hi Milkman

Firstly there is nothing wrong with the SWP per se nor is it a question of RESPECT mutating into a clone of the SWP. The suspicion comes from their previous interventions in single issue campaigns and organisations like the socialist Alliance and Respect who have a broader political agenda.

Basically they have a history of dropping campaigns when either things don't go in the political direction they want or when the political pond of potential recruits has dried up.

I was a member for ten years so I can't be too hard on them as I learnt and awful lot from my membership and am still heavily influenced by their ideas.

[the milkman]

Cheers Dickie..
Bit more in the clear now..
By the way.. followed your link to "war on want"..
What a top organisation!

[Dickie]

By the way.. followed your link to "war on want"..
What a top organisation!

They really are the good guys - Obviously it's a charity and therefore relies on donations to keep going. You could do worse than send some cash, join them or just buy one of their lovely T-shirts. It you're a member of a trade union you could get your branch to affiliate and if they're already affiliated get them up the amount they donate.

Sales pitch over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

On the stuff Alberr raised.

I was listening to Dianne (Abbot) and Michael (Portillo) on the telly last night. They were both rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of Labour backbenchers elected in 97 running around like headless chickens after the June elections. Not knowing how to deal with being unpopular.

The thought of losing all those labour marginals might spur some of the 'loyalists' into action. Who knows there may yet be a serious leadership challenge.

Will it all be over by Christmas?

[the milkman]

Was definitely thinking of getting one of their spanking t-shirts for the summer (and beyond), would like to do my bit to help where i can.

As for the whole voting thing.. if i take off my "highly cynical about politics" hat...

I thought about writing to my M.P (Tony Coleman - new labour) and saying to him that come the next general election i will not be able to vote for him because i do not agree with the actions of people like Blunkett and Straw and the like.
It is not the labour party or even neccersarily new labour that i am opposed to, just most of the current cabinet.
If everyone who felt the same way put pressure on their own labour MP, maybe the fear of losing their seats would spur a backbench rebellion and put pressure on for a change of leadership. Do the true labour party members want this cabinet any more than we do?
I have to admit to not knowing an awful lot about the in's and out's of politics so maybe this is a daft suggestion. I just feel that if you don't tell people what is pissing you off and just act on it they don't know what they did or are doing wrong. Further to that.. your MP is supposed to be your voice so if they don't know what you want, how are they to argue for it.

Right, cynical hat back on now. I don't suppose any of it will make any difference whatsoever and the 100% of the population get stuck with whoever the 30% who vote decide upon. I would say bollocks to it all but i'm not really built that way..

[Graham]

The very most that Respect can achieve is to stop Caroline Lucas, the very good Green MEP, from getting elected by splitting the left vote.

They're just a pointless diversion if you ask me. The cynicism of the SWP combined with the ego of George Galloway. If you're lucky to have a good labour candidate to vote for (I get to vote for Ken and vote for lucy Anderson in the london elections and I'm happy to do that.) If you don't like them then the Greens seem a far more credible left force than Respect to me.

[Graham]

I would find it hard to vote for a party who's main spokesperson (George Galloway) is anti-abortion anyway.

[Sarah lady]

By the way.. followed your link to "war on want"..
What a top organisation!

They really are the good guys - Obviously it's a charity and therefore relies on donations to keep going. You could do worse than send some cash, join them or just buy one of their lovely T-shirts. It you're a member of a trade union you could get your branch to affiliate and if they're already affiliated get them up the amount they donate.

Sales pitch over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I know its off topic but War on Want are a really great bunch - we have our Glasto/Leftfield meetings in their offices and basically - I want to work there!!

[Alberr]

Now here is a coincidence of a sort, seeing as I was thinking about what to do about the Labour Party and the forthcoming General Election. I just caught up with the contributins on here while opening the post and there is my old mate John Prescott grinning at me from a neat little handbill and holding up a card, (looks like two fingers) inviting me to come back to Labour. As I didn't know I'd been away I was intrigued. Apparently my membership lapsed yet again, and I can only assume that the membership department is as hopeless as the policy department.

Anyway, one look at that fat class traitor grinning at me from the letter convinced me that I must keep up me dues and get back in.

If only to do everything I can from within to see him and Blair off and out ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[the klf]

What's with all this soul searching?......It's simple isn't it.?


If you're vote dosn't go to 'New' Labour, it gives the Tories a better chance of being elected.

'Rock and a hard place'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

And if there is a revolt from the 'socialist rank and file' and Blair and his moderates are kicked off the front bench,then there is less chance still of winning the next election.

I just can't see who will lead a 'socialist' labour party....Robin Cook is the best man for the job, but the electorate will never make him prime minister because of his looks.

I think it will be a 10-15 year job, to return the Labour party to a real socialist party....To make that party 'electable' will be just as big a task.

I hope it can be done because i think this country would really benifit from having a stong Labour party and a strong Tory party that actually represent the left and the right of British politics, instead of having two inadequate parties suffling around the 'middle-ground' as we have now.

This post has been edited by the klf: May 8 2004, 06:21 PM

[Alberr]

Respect is merely a marriage of convenience between the authoritarians of the Socialist Workers Party and George Galloway's ego..........
the Labour party will continue to make our country a better place to live in.

Gary Titley MEP (Affectionately known as 'Tit' among his close friends)
Leader, European parliamentary Labour party

Quoted from a letter on the guardians letters page replying to a Younge article on the EU.

Thought that quote was relevant to the debate as someone here made a similar remark about Respect ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Despite my ironic remarks earlier there are only two likely outcomes of the next General Election in the UK. Either the Labour Party will retain control or the Tories will come back. If Respect wins a seat or two and/or the Liberal Party substatially increase their representation then the following election will be interesting.

This post has been edited by Alberr: May 8 2004, 03:23 PM

[Martyn]

It would appear that for whatever convoluted reason, perhaps someone can enlighten me, socialism is in terminal decline and Thatcherism is on the rise.

I think that whilst I have the opportunity I might excercise my democratic right to not vote in the next general election.

As Alberr quite rightly points out, a vote for Blair, by me after all I've said and ranted about him would be an act of hypocrisy.
Voting for anybody else would be futile as far as the alternative party is concerned and could lead to a tory administration.

I think my best course of action would be to stay at home on polling day but write to New Labour and tell them what I'm doing and why.
It's all very well for commentators to surmise that people not voting is down to cynicism or apathy. If we were to ring the fuckers up on election night and actually tell them we didn't vote because...etc etc... things might start to change.

Was it Brewsters Millions in which Richard Priors character tried to lose money by deliberately running a doomed election camapign?

His slogan was None of the Above.

That's just how I feel right now.

[Jon D]

It would appear that for whatever convoluted reason, perhaps someone can enlighten me, socialism is in terminal decline and Thatcherism is on the rise.

I think that whilst I have the opportunity I might excercise my democratic right to not vote in the next general election.

As Alberr quite rightly points out, a vote for Blair, by me after all I've said and ranted about him would be an act of hypocrisy.
Voting for anybody else would be futile as far as the alternative party is concerned and could lead to a tory administration.

I think my best course of action would be to stay at home on polling day but write to New Labour and tell them what I'm doing and why.
It's all very well for commentators to surmise that people not voting is down to cynicism or apathy. If we were to ring the fuckers up on election night and actually tell them we didn't vote because...etc etc... things might start to change.

Was it Brewsters Millions in which Richard Priors character tried to lose money by deliberately running a doomed election camapign?

His slogan was None of the Above.

That's just how I feel right now.

Come the next general election Martyn you're votng for an MP - not blair per se... so it depends on what your local candidate is like, IMHO some labour candidates are going to be worthy of support - are they likely to give blair a hard time or not? Blair's had a couple of rebellion scares already.

suit yourself of course but I think you're sounding a wee bit nihlistic.

Hope you're going to turn out for the euro elections anyway - the BNP are hoping for a low turnout cos the convoluted PR system might reward a determined fringe party.

[nevski]

respect party was vigorously pressing flesh in holloway road yesterday. thousands of postcards seemed to be being handed out. there were even a few on view behind the counter at the post office of all places.

..it was quite bizarre to hear 'blair is a liar' through a megaphone while the hare krishna bells were tinkling around a corner...

[Graham]

Respect is merely a marriage of convenience between the authoritarians of the Socialist Workers Party and George Galloway's ego..........
the Labour party will continue to make our country a better place to live in.

Gary Titley MEP (Affectionately known as 'Tit' among his close friends)
Leader, European parliamentary Labour party

Quoted from a letter on the guardians letters page replying to a Younge article on the EU.

Thought that quote was relevant to the debate as someone here made a similar remark about Respect ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Despite my ironic remarks earlier there are only two likely outcomes of the next General Election in the UK. Either the Labour Party will retain control or the Tories will come back. If Respect wins a seat or two and/or the Liberal Party substatially increase their representation then the following election will be interesting.

Oh my god. I'd read that letter and I must have subconciously repeated the remark. How embarrasing to repeat what he said. Well spotted Alberr.

I spoke to Gary Titley at Labour Spring Conference. He told me that the Labour Party would never give a referendum on the EU constitution and that he opposed referendums because they were the tools of Hitler and Mussolini. Within two months there was a u-turn and Titley wrote a letter to the Guardian supporting... yes, you guessed it... a referendum on the EU constitution.